Gordon Brown held his regular press conference today, and the event was dominated by the Government’s plans to address knife crime.
Parts of this transcript may have been edited
Read the transcript:
Prime Minister:
Good morning. I know there are a number of issues that you will want to raise with me, but let me start by saying we have all been deeply affected by the tragic killings as the result of knives and our thoughts today are with the families and friends of those killed, whose grief is overwhelming at this time.
With today’s announcements, tomorrow’s Youth Crime Action Plan and Thursday’s Policing Green Paper we are taking action first to enforce the law robustly, secondly to punish those who break the law, and thirdly to prevent young people falling into crime in the first place and to engender respect.
While overall, crime is down a third in 10 years, too many people, young and old, do not feel safe in their streets, or sometimes even their homes, as the result of the behaviour of a minority.
We need to make it absolutely clear to everyone, but especially to young people, that in our country there are boundaries of acceptable behaviour, that it is completely unacceptable to carry a knife, that with more stop and search than ever before, with more money and equipment like search arches and metal detectors available to the police, those carrying knives are more likely to be caught than ever before. And that with the maximum sentences higher, with an increase in sentences by a third and with the new presumption to prosecute for all knife offences when they are caught, those carrying knives and using them will be punished.
Building on the recent Casey Review we are strengthening community sentences in the country to make them tough, visible and effective. Just as we are doing more to get criminals to make reparation to the victims, it is only fair that they should pay back to the communities. A tough community pay-back order can involve up to 300 hours of unpaid work, as much as six hours a day over 50 days and communities themselves should have a role in deciding what these people do: cleaning up paths, scrubbing graffiti and what time they should do it, like cleaning the streets on Friday and Saturday nights.
We need also to tackle the root causes, not just by increasing opportunity but in a more individual way, spotting problems early and intervening to stop them getting out of control. We have today the Steer Report on behaviour in schools.
It is good for parents to be reassured by someone of Sir Alan’s stature that behaviour in schools is good, but he also identifies the problems and offers solutions, and we welcome his strategy for dealing with alcohol, drugs and other signs of the slippery slope in schools to more serious crime, including broad new search powers supported by better drugs education and improved guidance and training for staff.
More widely we need to focus on the one in twenty young people who commit half of all youth crime. These are the families whose children are disrupting the classrooms, or worse, roaming the streets committing crime. We will expand successful family interventions to an estimated 20,000 families, increase support for those who need it, but in return, tough sanctions, including eviction, if they do not respond.
Over the next three years we will extend the parenting support and supervision to all the 110,000 families with children identifiably at risk of becoming prolific offenders and we will cover them and take action to enforce the law - punish, but also prevent.
So let us be clear, if you carry a knife our objective, our determination is that you will be caught, you will be prosecuted, you will be punished. But we want to do all in our power also to prevent anyone from carrying a knife in the first place - enforcement, punishment and prevention together.
Question:
Prime Minister, the details of your knife plan so far have not, I think it is fair to say, won universal support. There is a sense that when you concentrate on punishment and enforcement, while people are sympathetic to that, first of all they don’t understand why you are not going for the simple idea of if you carry a knife you go to prison; and secondly there does seem to be concern that you are not really looking at the social causes and rather than concentrating necessarily on people who commit knife offences, that perhaps you ought to be dealing with all young people, rather than just that punishment. What would you say to that?
Prime Minister:
What we are doing is bringing together this week measures to enforce, measures to punish and measures to prevent.
So we are answering your last question, which is how we can deal with the social causes and what we do about it. Look, we have increased the maximum sentence from 2 years to 4 years. The amount of sentence that is actually given has increased by one third over recent years. Three times as many people are going to prison as a result of these sentences. We have banned the sale of knives to young people under 18. We have taken action in schools to prevent knives being available and used in schools, we have brought in metal detectors across the country to take action to spot knives, we have increased the use of stop and search powers for the police to take action.
All these things we have done and what we are also doing of course this week is stepping up the action on enforcement, more visible policing, more visible enforcement in our streets, stepping up the action on punishment, with the community payback matching the prison sentences, and stepping up the action on prevention.
Now there are 110,000 families where we know that there are disruptive young children in these families. We need to take action in relation to all these families over the next three years so that we have parenting contracts, or parenting orders, which force the parents to face up to their responsibilities, as well as the ways we deal with the causes and seek to prevent crime in the first place.
I have got absolutely no doubt that the knife referral projects, publicity surrounding the unacceptability of knives, will also make a difference but in the end my view is you have to have a combination of enforcement, of punishment and prevention.
We are tougher on punishment, we are tougher with more visible policing on enforcement and we are tougher now on prevention by adding this week to our layer of action dealing with all the problem families, that I believe have got to get parenting support but also parenting supervision.
Question:
Do you accept, as one A&E doctor said this morning, that by allowing those who perpetrate knife crime to meet those who have been the victims of crime, that this could amount to secondary victimisation for those people who have suffered knife attacks, and that by pushing this particular aspect over the weekend it once again makes you look as though you haven’t got a properly thought through strategy?
Prime Minister:
Now that is just one of the measures that we are considering that forces young people to face up to the consequences of their crimes, forcing them to see what damage they have done to victims, forcing them to see what is happening in the hospitals as a result of the actions that they have taken.
But the real background measures that will make the difference are tougher enforcement, more visible policing on the streets, more stop and search powers for police, and more metal detectors so that in crowded public places where people are operating we can spot knives and take action immediately, more enforcement, more punishment of course with combining tough prison sentence with community payback, a very heavy level of enforcement also, and then prevention too.
So it is a combination of prevention, enforcement and punishment, it is all three things together and I would not like people to think that there was one measure alone, there are a number of measures that we are taking: the tougher sentences, the tougher enforcement, and the tougher attitude to prevention.
Question:
Prime Minister, Labour has been in power for more than a decade. Do you accept that with this rise in knife crime something has broken in society on Labour’s watch?
Prime Minister:
Crime is down by one third. The number of offences being brought to justice has increased dramatically. There are far more police on the streets now. We have now got more visible policing and more visible presence from community support officers. So the stark facts are that crime is down.
But I accept that as long as young people or any person feel unsafe in our streets and our neighbourhoods, the job is not done and a huge amount has still to be done. And that is why we are toughening up punishment, we are toughening up enforcement and we are toughening up on prevention. That is why we accept that as long as parents are worried about their children and about teenagers going out at night, we have got to step up the visibility of our policing and enforcement.
We have got to make sure that young people understand that it is unacceptable to carry a knife and that there is punishment for them if they do so, and equally this presumption to prosecute also means that we will put that side by side with measures of prevention as well. So it is, I repeat, punishment, enforcement and prevention together.
Question:
Just briefly on that do you accept though that after more than 10 years and so many initiatives there is a good deal of public cynicism to overcome at this point.
And can I ask you one other thing. What went wrong with Zimbabwe, particularly with the Russians? And given China’s actions on this, is it now right for you to say that you are not going to go and attend the Olympics?
Prime Minister:
Let me just say that there are thousands more police on our streets. We have developed the concept of neighbourhood policing so that there is a visible policing presence. That in most areas has caused a reduction in crime and made people know that there is a policeman, or a policewoman, there that they can turn to.
At the same time, whether it be for guns or for knives we have increased the sentences dramatically and encouraged the judges and magistrates to use the sentences that are available. But I do accept that as long as there are problems with knives and with guns and with gangs, then people have got a right to expect that the government will take tougher action to deal with that.
And I think most people know when they look at this problem objectively and stand back that you have got to have punishment, yes, you have also got to have prevention and you have got to have proper enforcement measures. So one measure in itself is not enough. It is the combination of all these measures and that is what we are applying in a very direct way to knife crime.
We have chosen a number of hot-spots for knives and for guns. We have intensified undercover policing there, there are more stop and search powers available and more people being stopped and searched. We bring in the metal detectors into these areas so we can be clear who is carrying knives and guns and of course we then have tough court sentences for these people. So we are toughening up in each of these areas: prevention, enforcement and punishment.
As far as Zimbabwe is concerned, I think it is difficult to justify the vetoes that were put on the Zimbabwe resolution by both China and Russia. I think it is very hard to defend not taking action when we know that we have got an illegitimate government, that is holding power through violence, that is arresting people and putting them as political prisoners, incarcerating them, and a government that seems determined to hold onto power. That is why I regret what China and Russia did. Russia in particular had supported what we were proposing at the G8.
We will now, ourselves, step up our sanctions, we will ask the European Union at its meeting in a few days time to add a number of names to the sanctions list, add a number of corporate entities to that sanctions list. I have this morning asked The Treasury to work with the Financial Action Taskforce to track the wealth and the assets that are owned by the members of the Mugabe regime which we know are held in different continents, some in Asia, some in Africa, some in Europe, so that we are in a position to take tougher action against them at a later date, and I reserve the right that we will come back to the United Nations if mediation does not succeed and bring forward a further resolution at a later date.
I think that it is unfortunate that China and Russia have blocked this path when the vast majority of people in the world want to see action against the Zimbabwe regime, but the European Union and America will continue our sanctions and continue to block the sale and delivery of arms and at the same time I have talked to the UN General Secretary. He is still in the position where his envoy will be available to go to Zimbabwe. That has not been blocked by the UN resolution and I am grateful to him for confirming that there will be a UN envoy available.
I am not going to change my plans for the Olympic Games. As you know we were put under some questions over Tibet. At that point the Dalai Lama said himself that he did not want us to boycott the Olympic Games and I believe it is still right to go to the Olympic Games.
Question:
Thank you Prime Minister. Alf Hitchcock, the police officer who has been charged with looking into youth crime for the Home Office, has said community service could be part of the answer. Is he right? And could I also ask you to flesh out perhaps why it is you do not think automatic prison sentences are the answer on knife crime, and is it a matter of money?
Prime Minister:
The new measures we are announcing this week will mean that 110,000 young people in families where there are problems and they have been guilty of anti-social behaviour, these families will be covered by parenting action. So where there are young people offending, or young people at risk of offending, we will take action.
Where we use community payback as punishment, and that is young people being forced to do work in their community, we will toughen that up over the next period of time, 300 hours taken over a short period of time, using up Fridays and Saturdays so that young people cannot use these times to simply do damage in their own neighbourhoods, a very visible form of punishment that the community can see, but also a community punishment as payback that the community can also play a part in determining.
And whether through the neighbourhood policing contracts or whether through community panels, we want the community to play a part in determining what that community payback would be, and I think that is what Mr Hitchcock was suggesting.
There are other plans that we are working on as you know for young people to get more chance to be involved in community service. We have set up an organisation called V. We are inviting young people to give some of their time to do community service and that also is a project that is moving forward. But as far as these young offenders are concerned, community payback that is toughened up over the next period of time, and is genuinely a payback to the community for people doing wrong is, I think, on the right lines of dealing with the prevention side when we are talking about enforcement and punishment as well.
Question:
[INAUDIBLE]
Prime Minister:
When we come to this issue of prison, when someone is carrying and using a knife there is absolutely no doubt that they should go to prison. But I notice that those people who are proposing that prison simply for there being a knife have drawn back from that, and talk about a presumption of prison, and then talk about the different kinds of knives that would be exempted and the kinds of knives that will be used.
What I want to see is anybody who is using a knife goes to prison. Anybody who is carrying a knife is subject to either prison or a strong community payback that forces them to give service to the community. These are the types of sentences that young people must know will be applied against them. There is in all cases a presumption to prosecute.
Question:
Can you be more specific about why it is that you are not in favour of an automatic prison sentence for anybody caught carrying a knife? It seems to be common sense that if you send a very clear signal that stepping outside the house with a blade longer than three inches should mean prison. People cannot understand why you are reluctant to go that far.
And also, what is your view about the Sentencing Guidelines Council who came out 2 weeks ago and said that in the first instance there should be a fine. I think Tony McNulty has already said that is not strong enough.
Prime Minister:
I have made it clear that what the Sentencing Council has said is not acceptable to me. But I have also made it clear, and I think it is true, that there is a presumption to prosecute. So anybody carrying a knife, there is a presumption to prosecute. Now what then the prosecution involves is a matter for the courts. We have set very tough sentences, that is, it could be up to 4 years. We have made it absolutely clear that the sentences should be increased, and that is what judges have been doing.
My own view is that it should be a presumption of either prison or a tough community payback, and that will deal for example with the young person at 14 who is caught with a knife for the first time and where it would be inappropriate for them to be put into prison or into a Young Offenders Institute.
What we should do is say to them, there is a presumption to prosecute, you will be punished. We are absolutely clear that that punishment will be severe. That punishment will include going to prison or a tough community payback, and remember that the tough community payback can involve 300 hours of community service on Friday and Saturday nights, or through the week, visible to the community and determined by the community itself. I think that is the right way to proceed.
Question:
There is a report today that the Home Affairs Committee will call for a nation-wide curfew for under 16s. Do you think these curfews have a role as part of parenting orders and if you want to set a boundary for young people, could a nation-wide curfew be a possibility?
Prime Minister:
Local authorities have this power now to set curfews and the police have also got the powers to have dispersal orders so these two powers are in place, and where there is trouble in a particular area they should be used. So a local authority can set a curfew for 90 days and police can actually institute a dispersal order to get people off the streets. These are powers that are available and they should be used when there is a problem.
Question:
Prime Minister, you have talked a lot about community payback this morning but isn’t your strategy really being driven by the lack of capacity in the prison service? Do you regret as Chancellor blocking the building of more prisons?
Prime Minister:
This is just nonsense. We have increased the number of prison places. This idea that we have blocked the number of prison places being increased - they have been increased from 60,000 to 80,000. So in 1997 there were 60,000 prison places, there are now 80,000. It is going up to 82,000, then to 86,000. It will go up over 90,000. We have made provision for an extra 16,000 places. I am afraid the Daily Express has got this wrong.
There are more prison places than there were in 1997, 20,000 more, and there are going to be more prison places this year - 2,500 more - and then over the next few years, 15,000 to 16,000 more prison places have been authorised. So prison places in 1997 were 60,000 and within a few years time it will be 96,000.
Question:
Prime Minister, can I turn your attention to matters international and ask you about the anticipated arrest warrant for the Sudanese President Al-Bashir. We believe it could be on charges of genocide. Do you think that is right? And secondly do you think it could cause all sorts of problems for the people of Sudan and aid workers there?
Prime Minister:
Well I think it is too early to comment on the outcome of the ICC deliberations. We are just hearing reports about what might be done, but we call on the government of Sudan to co-operate with the International Criminal Court. The International Criminal Court has our support for its activities. We have raised with the Sudanese Government the need to co-operate with the International Criminal Court.
The Foreign Secretary raised this with the Sudanese President on 9 July. The prosecutor as I understand it is about to submit an application to the judges of the International Criminal Court. What then happens is a matter for the deliberations of the International Criminal Court before we take it further. So we are perhaps at the first stages of something, but it is premature to anticipate that it has actually come to a conclusion.
Question:
Prime Minister I wanted to return to knife crime here. You talked about crime, you mentioned several times that crime has reduced by a third, but what I am not clear on is whether you accept that knife crime has actually increased. And also you have talked about punishment, you talked about enforcement, you talked about prevention, you didn’t use the word rehabilitation. Finally, can you list for me the root causes? In order to develop an effective policy obviously you have to have some sense of what those root causes are, so what would you say are the five most important root causes?
Prime Minister:
Five?
Question:
Yes.
Prime Minister:
Let’s be absolutely clear that crime in general has fallen, violent crime has fallen, but there is a problem in three areas that have got to be dealt with - knives, guns and gangs - and these are problems that are affecting some areas in our country far more than other areas, particularly the cities. And that is why we have got in these hot spots intensive policing, as well as a determination to deal with the root causes of the problem.
Now let’s just remember that we have increased the sentences for knives from 2 years to 4 years, we have banned young people under 18 from buying knives, we have taken action in our schools, we have metal detectors in different parts of the country, particularly in the hot spots, we are giving the police stop and search powers, and I am announcing today - as I have - these measure for prevention which I would say are prevention and rehabilitation so that we deal with the proclivity to crime and to antisocial behaviour on the part of young people.
We are dealing obviously with one particular issue on knives. We have got to make it unacceptable for young people to be seen in the streets at night, or at any time, carrying a knife. I believe that guns are unacceptable in this country and everybody has come to the conclusion that guns should not be held by people and that is why we have banned so many varieties of guns.
I believe that bullying has become unacceptable in our country as a result of a major campaign to make it unacceptable in school playgrounds or anywhere else to bully people, and there is a general public mood about that. We have got to create the same antipathy towards the carrying of knives, and young people have got to get the message, not just from their peers but from fellow young people, that it is unacceptable to carry a knife. And I believe that message is starting to get through but it is important that we reinforce that at all times with the advertising campaigns we are doing. So there are some things that we are saying about what is an acceptable boundary in our society, it is a boundary that should not be crossed, in other words people should not be carrying knives.
I think the second set of factors that we have got to deal with, and forces at work, are where young people have fallen into bad habits, fallen into violent habits, fallen into antisocial behaviour. And that is first and foremost the responsibility of the parent and that is why we are stepping up parenting orders and parenting contracts and antisocial behaviour contracts. But that is why we are announcing today that 110,000 families will be covered by parenting supervision and support, and why in 20,000 cases we will do what are very tough family intervention projects.
Now a Family Intervention Project is where there is a family breakdown, it is clear that the mother or the father have lost control of their children and their whole life is actually in difficulty. We are prepared to step in and offer a contract - you clean up your life, we will help you do it. If you do that, we will give you additional support so that you can either get a job or take care of your children in a better way, sometimes move to another house, but you have to meet the terms of the contract. And that is, you have got to change your ways, the behaviour towards your children has got to be far more about discipline than about permissiveness, and that is what a family intervention programme is about.
So we are dealing at root causes with the failure of parents to take control of their children and their young people and that is the other course that we have got to deal with.
Now these are the two things that I think are absolutely crucial: one, a clear message about what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour; and two, the clear responsibility for children growing up and young people, starting with the responsibility that parents have got to be encouraged to exercise, and in some cases - as we are suggesting today - forced to exercise.
Question:
Prime Minister when you talk about these tough community orders and the 300 hours, would you like to see the young people doing these wearing actually some sort of visible garments which show that they are actually doing it, rather than just sort of in jeans and a tee shirt?
Prime Minister:
That is not the most important part of it. It could be a part of it, and it has been suggested by the Casey Review that it is a part of it, but I know the issues that were raised the last time that surfaced, perhaps in the columns of the Telegraph when you were writing for it. I would say to you this, that what matters is that it is visible, what matters is that it is tough, and what matters is that it is a restriction on the liberty of that young person.
And that is why the proposal about 300 hours, taken in a short period of time so that it is intensive, losing all weekends, the community itself deciding what that punishment is, and the community then seeing visibly the results of what is done, and the community deciding that Fridays and Saturdays have got to be given up by that young person to do that community work.
Now prison will in many cases be the right answer where there are real problems, but in some cases tough community payback, as set out by the Casey Review a few weeks ago, which is a complete shift from the old community service or the unpaid work idea, is what is to be done, and whether that is in uniform or not is a question that is of course answered in the Casey Review, and I would support what she says.
But that is not the fundamental part of it, the fundamental part of it is that it is tough, it is visible and the community has some control over it and it is the restriction of the young person’s liberty.
Question:
We are a couple of weeks away I think from the National Policy Forum and many believe that over this weekend the unions will see some of the payback for keeping the Labour Party afloat. Can you give a guarantee today that there will be no sops or concessions or other shifts in favour of the unions over the next month in the lead-up to [INAUDIBLE]
Prime Minister:
I have made it absolutely clear, and I said it a week ago and I have said it previously, I said it at a meeting where I spoke to the trade unions 10 days ago, we are not returning to the ’70s or the ’80s, we are not returning to the days of secondary picketing, we are not returning to the days of trade union legislation that is written by the trades unions themselves.
We are continuing with our policies that are about a flexible and employment-friendly workplace that will create the jobs that we will need for this country. And I think you have got to recognise that over the past 10 years we have created 3 million jobs in this country, we have created a new deal that gets young people back to work, and I think the focus of the trade unions, as well as of the whole of the country is on jobs, it is on good jobs, it is on skilled jobs, it is on giving young people the skills for the jobs of the future, and there is going to be no return to those issues about picketing or secondary action of the 1970s or 1980s.
Question:
Prime Minister we have seen very slow progress on deploying a hybrid peace-keeping force in Darfur, which you made a priority last year. We have seen little enthusiasm for your aim of meeting the Millennium Development Goals, and now we see Britain’s efforts on Zimbabwe flounder at the UN Security Council. Is it right to think that Britain has lost its clout on the world stage?
Prime Minister:
I think quite the opposite. There are hundreds of peacekeepers in Sudan. What has prevented us doing more is the attitude of the Sudanese government. I talked to Secretary General Ban about this only yesterday when I met him in Paris, and we are determined to get the extra hundreds that are needed to make up that police and peace keeping force as soon as possible.
As far as the Millennium Development Goals are concerned, I hope you saw that at the G8 only a few days ago we put aside a billion dollars so that a million more children can get into education, so that since 2000 when we started this campaign, more than 40 million children who were not in school are now in school, we have put aside extra money over the next 5 years, $60 billion, to tackle diseases, HIV Aids, to tackle polio, tuberculosis, malaria, and we added to the number of nets available for malaria 100 million nets.
And we have reinforced the commitments that were made at Gleneagles for an extra $25 billion for Africa, and an extra $50 billion in development aid altogether. So Britain’s campaign to achieve the Millennium Development Goals, which is leading to the special summit that we asked the UN Secretary General to call on 25 September, is a campaign that not only continues but has been reinforced by the decisions that have been made in Japan.
And as far as Zimbabwe is concerned, I think it was an achievement at the G8 that all members of the G8 supported action against Zimbabwe. I think that message did go right across the world, and as I say the actions of China and Russia in blocking the resolution, when it had a clear majority at the United Nations without the veto, that a majority of countries, including Burkina Faso in Africa, were voting for that resolution, it was vetoed by China and Russia, and as I say that action cannot be justified. But we are not going to be deterred, we are going to continue to enforce sanctions on the Mugabe regime and the cabal around him, and we are going to continue with our efforts that a UN special envoy should play a part in mediation so that we can bring an end to the illegitimacy of the regime and can move towards a transition.
In all these areas of foreign policy we continue to press, and I believe with some degree of achievement.
Question:
Prime Minister do you envisage one day being the Prime Minister who announces the total withdrawal of British troops from Iraq, or is there an irreducible minimum below which you cannot go so that there will always be troops in Iraq?
Prime Minister:
Well I can’t set an artificial timetable or date. But we have four functions and responsibilities to discharge in Iraq and it is our duty to discharge these responsibilities and I believe you can see how these can be discharged in the next period of time.
The first is, having moved from combat to what is called overwatch, in other words we are no longer at the front line of combat in Iraq, we are doing training and supply functions for the Iraqi forces themselves to take the bigger role. We will have to train up more Iraqi forces. One of the lessons of the events in Basra a few months ago when Prime Minister Maliki led the Iraqi forces into Basra is that we do need more intensive training of the forces in Iraq, and that will continue, but that is something that we can do with the different brigades in Iraq and are continuing to do.
The second thing that we have got to do is to make it possible for local democracy to be restored in the Basra area, and we would not be happy until we have full local government restored, matching what happened with the elections for central government. And we believe that there is a possible date for local elections around November/December this year.
The third thing is actually the economic and social development of Basra. It is a rich area, it is an area which has got oil, it has got huge resources, it is potentially one of the trading centres of the region, and we are drawing up an economic and social plan to give people a stake in the future of Basra through the economic development programme that we are leading. Mr Michael Waring is one of our representatives who is leading a business forum in Basra to create greater opportunities, to give people a stake in the future there.
And the fourth thing we have got to do is of cours,e we hold the Airport at the moment and we want to transfer it to civilian use.
So these are our four responsibilities: to train; to get local government elections; to give people a stake in the future of Basra, not least by returning some of the facilities, like the airport, to civilian use. So I am not going to set an artificial timetable, but these are the responsibilities that we are discharging and I believe with a great deal more success now as a result of some of other changes we have made in the way we operate in Basra.
And let me just say that I have got nothing but praise for our armed forces operating there. They are now operating in a new role, but they are doing it with a great deal of distinction.
Question:
One of the proudest boasts of your Chancellorship was that you had moved Britain out of the cycle of boom and bust, but there are very few who don’t accept that Britain is once again facing boom to bust. Are you considering a major package of relief for those people worst affected by the downturn in the British economy?
Prime Minister:
Well it is very important that we understand both what is happening and what we can do. We are dealing with a trebling of oil prices, we are dealing with a doubling of food prices and we are dealing with a credit crunch. And so we have these three forces that affect the cost of money, the cost of food and the cost of your basic energy hitting every country of the world together. And we have the responsibility to help people through these difficult times, and yes we will consider further measures. We have raised the winter allowance for pensioners, we have negotiated a deal with the fuel companies so that the utilities can help low income households, we have frozen until now the car petrol duty, and we are trying to do what we can to help hard pressed households who I understand, every time they go to the petrol station, or every time they go to the supermarket, have seen the effect of this worldwide rise in food bills and fuel bills.
And at the same time obviously we are looking at how we can work with our global partners to deal with problems that cannot be solved simply at a national level, but have got to be solved at a global level. You cannot get the oil price into a better position unless you have global action; you cannot tackle the food shortage simply in one country, you have got to deal with it across the world; and of course the credit crunch raises issues about the operation of financial institutions that have got to be dealt with at a local level.
So yes also, in addition to helping people through very difficult times - and we will - we are working with our international partners to see what we can do to deal with these three global problems that to some extent are unprecedented because they have come together in the way that they have, and to some extent even the oil shock is a greater oil shock than happened in the 1970s and has got to be dealt with in new ways. So yes we are working with our global partners to deal with these problems.
Question:
Prime Minister you will shortly be hosting Barack Obama here for a visit, do you feel you are yet clear about what his policies would be if he becomes America’s next President, what are the areas that you would most like to discuss with him? And will you just be listening to him, or after the ups and downs of your first year in office, will you be offering him some advice should he make it to the White House?
Prime Minister:
Well one of the benefits of having been in America a few months ago is that I had a chance to speak at some length with Senator Obama and I enjoyed my conversation very much. So I am resuming our discussions when he comes to London. I think we are all of course dealing with the same global challenges and global problems. I don’t think there is a shortage of policy on the part of Senator Obama’s campaign, as you can see from the policy statements that he has put forward and proposed to implement. I think we will discuss what we can do about oil prices and food prices, I think we will discuss what we can do about the longer and medium term challenges of energy in the world, for example our decision to build nuclear power stations; I think we will discuss how the global institutions have been found inadequate to deal with the problems that we have at the moment and how these need to be reformed. I know that he will want to discuss with me some of the challenges that we meet in the developing countries and what we can do to build a new deal if you like between the poorest countries and the richest countries of the world and I look forward to having a discussion with him on all these things.
I will also be able to show him what has happened in Britain, to the Health Service, to education, to employment over these last 10 years, and I know that the Democratic Party have looked at the successes that we have had in these areas as they formulated their policies. So I look forward to having a discussion with him over the next few days.
Question:
Obviously knife crime is a very important issue for our listeners, and we have had lots of texts on it this morning. I would just like to read a few comments. This one here says: “I am a stab victim who nearly died. If you brought my attackers to see me in hospital, I would have attacked him. Obviously offenders won’t be shocked, they know what they are doing. You are turning wards into freak shows, robbing victims of their dignity”. Most of the texts Prime Minister are calling for tougher sentences and they say that you are living in dreamland and you are out of touch on this.
Prime Minister:
That is why we are giving tougher sentences. The sentences, the maximum sentence for carrying a knife or using a knife is 4 years. Young people under the age of 18 cannot be sold a knife, we are taking tougher action today about what we can remove without consent in schools, we are bringing in metal detectors into areas using stop and search powers, controversial as they are, and using undercover policing where there are huge problems in certain areas to deal with knife crime. So we are increasing the punishments, as you asked us to do, we are also increasing the enforcement, more visible policing, and we are also of course trying to act to prevent people having knives in the first place. But the first message I think I would want to give to your listeners is that it is unacceptable for people to carry knives. There are boundaries in our country which should not be crossed, and one of these boundaries is that nobody should be walking down the street carrying a knife that could inflict damage on other people.
Question:
[INAUDIBLE]
Prime Minister:
And if we can, through you and other people, get that message across that it is now unacceptable, just as it is unacceptable to carry a gun, it is unacceptable to carry a knife, just as it is unacceptable to bully people, it is unacceptable to have the threat of a knife being used in any street of our country, and we will take the toughest action, and as I said earlier on, if you are carrying a knife our intention is that if you are caught, if you are carrying a knife, our intention is that you are prosecuted, and if you are carrying a knife our intention is that you are punished. And we also want to prevent people carrying knives in the first place and we will take the toughest of actions to achieve that.
Question:
Prime Minister are there any circumstances where you think the victims of the Equitable Life near-collapse deserve compensation, and would the government be prepared to pay that compensation?
Prime Minister:
Well this is a legal question. You know we have dealt with issues that show the culpability of Equitable Life as a company in this matter, there are issues being raised about the governance and we are trying to deal with these, but this is a legal question and we have got to look at the legal judgments that are made.
Question:
Prime Minister are you satisfied with the Iranian response to the western nuclear initiative, especially in the light of the recent threats by the Iranian government?
Prime Minister:
What the Iranian government did is unacceptable. We have put to them proposals. I do not believe we have had a full answer from them yet, once we have a full answer that we can examine, we will take further action. We do not rule out further sanctions on Iran, and I make that absolutely clear, and I believe that the Iranian government has got a choice: the choice is to join the international community by renouncing nuclear weapons, or face isolation and sanctions from the international community if they don’t.
Question:
Prime Minister, back on Zimbabwe, why do you think that further EU sanctions will make any difference to Robert Mugabe? And you said that you might go back to the UN, why do you think that another effort at the UN will succeed where this one failed? And other than the envoy from the UN, what is the next step if both those things fail?
Prime Minister:
Well the answer in a sense to all three of your questions is this, that the argument that was put at the United Nations last week was that mediation had started, that talks were actually taking place, that Morgan Tsvangirai had actually said just a few hours before the resolution that he was entering talks, and it is certainly true that talks are taking place and there may be some mediation and some framework agreement. What I am saying is that if that doesn’t work and the results are not satisfactory then we reserve the right to go back to the United Nations to put a further resolution. And then those people who have argued that they couldn’t support the first resolution because there was mediation under way and they didn’t want to disrupt that by sanctions and by further embargoes and by further envoys, they would have to face up to the fact that mediation, if it hadn’t succeeded, we have to take further action. Sanctions are a very important way that the European Union can put pressure on the Mugabe regime, and continue to do so. The UN envoy is going ahead and that envoy will go to Harare and make the points to Zimbabwe. And at the same time of course we have not only the European Union putting sanctions on Zimbabwe, and banning arms sales, but America is too. But clearly if mediation is not successful, we reserve the right to go back to the United Nations.
Question:
Prime Minister it has just been confirmed that Santander are to take over Alliance and Leicester. Given the weakened state of the UK banking system, are you concerned at all that British banking could end up in foreign hands?
Prime Minister:
We have always operated an open economy and I think we have benefited from the fact that there is a diversity of ownership in the United Kingdom economy. And we have always made it possible in recent years for different financial institutions to buy into the British economy and to the British financial services sector. I know about Santander’s bid for Alliance and Leicester, it has been a bid that was made a few months ago, it is now a bid that has come to fruition, and I just say that we benefit from having an open economy in Britain.
And I have said before,there are sovereign wealth funds, there are many other institutional investors that are recycling oil revenues, and we have made it very clear that we are open to further investments in both our financial sector and our energy sector. In fact when I went to Jeddah I made it clear that if we are going to get a stable energy price, rather than just high oil prices, we need a diversification of ownership in our energy industries that give oil producers the chance to buy into non-oil energy sources, and that would be good for the British economy, not bad.
Question:
Do you have any plans to visit Glasgow East before the by-election, and if not, why not?
Prime Minister:
I have made that clear. It is not the tradition of Prime Ministers to go to by-elections.
Question:
I think Prime Minister you are meeting the President of Nigeria later this week. I just wonder what sort of assistance Britain would be able to give the Nigerian government to secure oil supplies in Nigeria? And what would you say to rebels operating in the area who say that British intervention would be counter-productive?
Prime Minister:
We are losing a million, maybe a million and a half barrels of oil a day, oil that is urgently needed to supply the world economy because of violence and criminal activity in the Nigerian Delta. These are criminal acts, this is violence, and what I have been discussing already with the President of Nigeria, who is also coming to visit me in London on Wednesday, I met him at the G8 a few days ago, I talked to him by telephone before that, what we are looking at is how we can help ensure that there is law and order in what is a very dangerous area, but what is an important strategic area for the world where oil supplies, if put at risk, create an instability, if not a loss of supply for the world. So I will be talking through with him some of the things that we could do, and perhaps the rest of the international community can do, to help.
If you look round the world at the moment there are a number of areas where oil production has been interrupted by either political instability or decisions that have been made by governments that they want to change but are unable to do so quickly, and where we can help, as in Nigeria, we are prepared to do so.
Question:
Prime Minister, reverting back to Iran, what assessment have you received and how concerned are you about the safety of British troops in Iraq, Afghanistan and also in Cyprus from the launching of missiles by Iran last week? And what assurance, or reassurance, can you give to Israelis who have now been threatened repeatedly by Ahmadinejad that he is out to eliminate the country? Words are meaningless if there is no back-up.
Prime Minister:
Well it is not simply words of distaste and outrage at what the President of Iran has said about the threat to Israel, it is the definitive action by the international community that we support, and that is why we have already put sanctions on Iraq - Iran, sorry - that is why there have been three resolutions before the United Nations, that is why we have just put additional sanctions on the major bank of Iran in the last few weeks, and that is why we reserve the right to go back to the United Nations for a further resolution against Iran. And we make it absolutely clear, we are prepared to make an offer to Iran to join the international community, get the benefits of civil nuclear power, and that is something that is available to them as a country that says that they want to have civil nuclear power. But we are not prepared to allow them to acquire nuclear weapons and that is why I say work with the international community and accept that we will help you be provided with civil nuclear power, or face isolation from the international community over these next few years.
Question:
[Inaudible]
Prime Minister:
I don’t comment on these assessments and you wouldn’t expect me to do so.
Question:
Last week Ministers lauded a deal between the government and the insurance industry, especially regarding continuing guarantees on insurance for households. But in the face of claims excesses totalling £10,000 and soaring premiums, doesn’t that deal seem very paper thin, and what message would you have for householders in the county?
Prime Minister:
Well I understand, as you know I visited last year when we had the floods and I understand the damage that was done to householders and the claims that had to be made as a result of that. We are trying, as you know, to improve the protection against such floods in the future, we have had the Pitt Report that has looked at the lessons from what has been done. Obviously we want people to receive their insurance claims and to receive them promptly and I will look at what you say about the prices now being charged by insurance companies. But the first thing is that those people who have got proper claims as a result of the damage done last year should be fully reimbursed.
Question:
Just coming back to Zimbabwe Prime Minister, China has got huge investments in Africa and a big presence in Africa, and if they have used a veto on the eve of the Olympics, what chance would you have for them not using the veto again if you go back to the United Nations? Would it be actually morally really right to go to the Olympics, given the way that China has behaved over Zimbabwe?
Prime Minister:
I reserve the right to go back to the United Nations quickly rather than taking months. That depends on whether the mediation efforts that are happening in South Africa and Zimbabwe work. And I believe that we have got a very strong case for international sanctions, for an arms embargo, as well as for the UN envoy. As I say what decisions were made by Russia and China do not seem to me to be defensible or can be justified, and I reserve the right that we will go back to the United Nations in not too long a period of time.
Question:
What do you say Prime Minister to the Catholic Bishop, Joseph Devine, who said that the UK government with its Embryology Bill was violating moral law, while Cardinal Keith O’Brien has spoken emotively of 1 million babies possibly dying in the womb over the next 5 years and has urged MPs to look to their consciences? Are you fearful that they are trying to hijack the Glasgow East by-election?
Prime Minister:
Well I think we have debated in the House of Commons the issues of the Embryology Bill. I don’t believe that new issues have been raised at the moment other than a repetition of the debate that we had previously. And I think we have got to respect the fact that the House of Commons voted on a free vote on all these controversial issues related to the Human Embryology Bill and made its views very clear, and that the House of Lords had also previously voted these changes through. I believe we had a full debate, it was an informed debate, everybody had the chance to put their views, there was a free vote for MPs and a decision was reached.
Question:
Two questions: one, will criminals be offered a reduced sentence if they visit their stabbing victims in hospital; and two, a different question, do you think there are lessons to be learnt over the speed with which the US government has dealt with its own mortgage crisis last week?
Prime Minister:
I think the answer to the first is no. We are suggesting increasing punishments for those people who are guilty of knife crime, and we are suggesting increasing the important activities that is happening. And I just repeat to you so that it is not misunderstood that our policy is to toughen up punishment, to toughen up enforcement and to toughen up the action that we take to prevent people carrying knives in the first place. And your second question was?
Question:
There are lessons to be learnt by the speed with which the US government has dealt with its own mortgage crisis, and could that have been translated last year to the Northern Rock?
Prime Minister:
I don’t accept that at all. We had tried to find a private sector buyer for Northern Rock, we would still have preferred there to be a private sector buyer for Northern Rock. And I think the smoothness with which in the end Northern Rock has been transferred into the public sector, and with taking the action to restructure the company to make it available for private sale is a vindication of what we did. Where there are institutions that have difficulties, as has happened in the last two weeks as you know with another institution, we have taken appropriate action, and we will continue to look at this on a case by case basis to maintain the financial stability of the economy.
Question:
Prime Minister the government forecasts for growth are looking increasingly optimistic, do you sense that things are worse than you anticipated back in the spring? And also do you think stamp duty holidays might be a way of helping home buyers get through this rough patch?
Prime Minister:
Both these matters, what the growth rate is going to be and what are the policies to deal with housing are matters not for me today, but for the Pre-Budget Report. And we only give our estimates of growth at two points in the year, at the Budget and at the Pre-Budget Report, and it is not for me to speculate what the Chancellor is able to say.
What has changed in the economy over the last few months from previous forecasts is that the oil price has continued generally, it has continued to grow, and so you are dealing with an oil price now that has doubled over the course of the last year. I just say to you, in any other decade in this country or any other country’s history, if you had had a trebling of oil prices and you had oil prices of $140, $135, whatever it is, you would have had a recession, in any other decade, in the ’70s it happened of course with a lesser oil shock, in the ’80s and ’90s if it had happened then it would have been very difficult to come through without a recession.
What we have is a more flexible economy, able to adjust more quickly. But of course you cannot deny that if the oil price continues to rise, and it has that direct effect on people’s standards of living, and a direct effect on inflation in the economy, then that is going to affect the general state of the economy as a whole. And so the factors, the forces really that we are having to deal with are rising food prices, which I believe you might see some change in that over the next few months, rising costs of money as a result of the banks and building societies charging more, despite the lower interest rate of the Bank of England for the mortgages. And what you are also seeing - but this is the more dramatic thing - is the effect of oil prices going right across the economy. And when oil prices rise then the price of air fares are affected, when oil prices rise then the costs of getting goods to supermarkets rise, when oil prices rise of course the motorist has to pay more, gas and electricity bills are affected. Now that is what is changing.
But I just have to say to you that what is happening, is happening in every single country of the world. The head of the World Bank reported to the G8 that there were 41 countries round the world that are suffering a growth shock of between 3 - 10% as a result of the change in the terms of trade because of oil. And so you are seeing countries in Asia and Africa, as well as in Europe feeling the pain, and as you know what is happening in America is something that is more significant almost because of what has happened to the credit change as well. So what has changed over the last few months is the change in oil price.
Question:
Just in reference to your announcement, could you explain how these 110,000 families would be selected and what the parents would be required to do? You were quite loose in your language, you talked about contracts and orders and talking about traditional parent orders. And finally related to that, Barack Obama has made some quite controversial speeches about the absence of black fathers in their families and this has led to an identification with gangs and proclivity to violence. Do you agree with him and do you think there is anything we can do here in Britain about that issue?
Prime Minister:
Well I think all of us, as I said earlier, recognise that the first responsibility where a child is in trouble, or a child is in danger of getting into trouble, rests with the parents, and we need to hold parents responsible, we need to say to parents that where you need support we are prepared to provide it. But we also need to say that where a family becomes dysfunctional and gets into trouble that it cannot itself escape from, that we need direct and compulsory action. Family intervention partnerships are one way that we can help, but the family has got to sign up to a contract to change its behaviour so that we can properly help them get their children, as well as themselves, out of difficulty.
When I come to the 110,000 families with children identifiable at risk of becoming problem children or prolific offenders, these will be people who have either been excluded from schools, are on antisocial behaviour orders at the moment who have ended up in juvenile justice settings, people who are identified as likely to be in greater trouble later on, and we will want to act with their parents first of all on intensive courses to give them support, to help them supervise their children, to help them realise the gravity of the situation if they do not get their children disciplined or under control.
So when I say to you at the beginning that our policy is punishment, and we are toughening up the punishment, and our policy is the proper execution of that enforcement, and that is through more intensive policing, I also say that prevention is a very big part of this. Because I think everybody sitting here would want to prevent young people who are growing up at the moment getting into trouble in the first place, and that is why action in their families is so important. So for the first time ever we are setting a target that over the next three years we are going to extend the parenting supervision support that is available to all 110 families who we identify as being at risk as being prolific offenders, but these will be people who have either got into trouble at school, or got into trouble with the law, or it seemed early on as being at risk of getting into trouble. There is the 20,000 [INAUDIBLE] families intervention partnerships, there are 110,000 families overall who can expect to be subject to parenting supervision or support.
Question:
Do you have any view on Barack Obama?
Prime Minister:
I have actually said, as I repeated at the beginning, that when he says that parents have got to accept responsibility, I agree with him entirely. But the first duty of a government when you have a problem child or a child that is getting into difficulty, is to remind the parent that it is their responsibility to do their best to ensure that there is discipline, that there is self-control, that there is proper behaviour by that young person. But we have got in the criminal justice system to combine the punishment and the enforcement with all the measures we take, as he would, Senator Obama would himself support for prevention as well.
Question:
[PARTY POLITICAL CONTENT]
Prime Minister:
[PARTY POLITICAL CONTENT]
Question:
14 year old David Idowu was stabbed to death in London three weeks ago, he died of his wounds this time last week. I spoke extensively with his friends and family, obviously devastated. They are watching this now, what is your message to them?
Prime Minister:
My message is we will do everything in our power to root out knives from our community, that it is unacceptable for young people to carry a knife. We are going to take the toughest possible measures to enforce action against knives, we are going to strengthen, as I have said, the punishments that are available to the courts to deal with knives.
We have done that already, we continue to do that. And I want every young person in London to know that it is unacceptable to go out into the streets or into the neighbourhoods of London at night or at any point during the day carrying a knife. The message has got to be very clear: you are more at risk by carrying a knife than by not carrying a knife, it is completely unacceptable to the rest of the community for young people to arm themselves with knives, and if you are caught with a knife you will be prosecuted and you will be punished.
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