8 May 2006
Tony Blair spoke about the Government’s future policy agenda during his monthly press conference at Number 10.
He was asked questions about the Cabinet reshuffle, his leadership, foreign prisoners, Guantanamo Bay and Iran.
Parts of this transcript may have been edited
Opening statement
Good morning everyone. Before starting I would like to express my deep condolences to the families of those killed in Basra on Saturday and once again pay tribute to the heroism, commitment and professionalism of our Armed Forces.
This week we are now one year from the last election and a new Cabinet is charged with continuing delivery of the commitments that we made when we won that third term, and you might be forgiven for thinking over the past few days that there isn’t actually a busy government agenda, but there is.
Later in May, John Hutton, Gordon and myself will publish the proposals to deliver a new long-term pensions framework which will be about implementing the Turner Commission report.
Before the end of the summer, the Department of Trade and Industry, under the new leadership of Alistair Darling, will complete the review of Energy Policy, vital to providing affordable, secure and sustainable energy to British business and British families.
The Department for Transport will continue its analysis of long-term transport funding which will be complemented by important work on the future of planning and housing that will be announced by Ruth Kelly.
On Public Service reform too, in the coming period of course, together with Patricia Hewitt, I will be working on the essential reforms of the National Health Service.
Indeed, in the coming weeks we will see the final stages of the Education and Inspections Bill with its far-reaching package of measures to improve standards, tackle discipline and give new freedoms and opportunities to schools. Alan Johnson and his team will be underlining the way these measures can benefit all schools and pupils and benefit the least-advantaged most.
And then we have to continue progress, obviously, in delivering the commitment for 200 Academies and to ensure that the new opportunities provided by Trust Schools and School Federations are taken up widely.
But, just as we are asking the Public Services to reform, so we must continue to reform modern government, to make it fit for purpose. Before the Summer Recess, therefore, as you know we will be publishing the findings of the Spending Review that we have been conducting with the Treasury and Whitehall Departments, and that will be a vital foundation stone of next year’s Comprehensive Spending Review.
As I have said before, the development of a modern, enabling state is vital to all of this programme, setting the strategy overall in Whitehall, but also devolving operations and delivery to a diverse and dynamic range of providers, and I would draw attention in that connection to the appointment of a Minister for the Third Sector in the Cabinet Office, Ed Milliband, who will ensure that we draw on and support the potential of the voluntary sector and social enterprises as partners in service delivery. And these developments, together with the outlining of the capability reviews of Department, will be taken forward in greater detail at a major one-day conference on public service reform hosted by the Cabinet Secretary on 6 June.
And then of course there is the debate how we modernise our crime-fighting and Criminal Justice system and in particular how we balance the rights of the individual with the safety of the community, and that is a debate we have been conducting in the past few months and one I will be returning to with enthusiasm throughout the rest of the year, including the possibility of fresh legislation in the next session.
On Saturday, as you know, Hilary Armstrong outlined some of the thinking in our plans to tackle the deep-seated causes and symptoms of social exclusion.
Tomorrow, Ruth will be talking about the need for strong neighbourhoods with the powers and support required to tackle local problems together. And on Wednesday, Douglas Alexander will highlight the need for a public debate about how to meet people’s desire for greater travel with the inevitable constraints of spending and the environment. And in that job of course he will work closely with David Milliband as the new Environment Secretary, who will outline his priorities on Friday and Margaret Beckett internationally.
The role of Parliament, and the management of it, is obviously critical to all this which is why, contrary to some of the speculation over the weekend based on a conversation with Jack Straw after the last Election, I have asked Jack as probably the most senior and experienced parliamentarian to take on this task.
Now I want just to say a few words about some of the speculation that there has been in the last few days. As you all know, for the first time for a sitting Prime Minister, prior to the last election I answered the inevitable question as to whether that election - my third election - would be my last, and I said it would be. I did so precisely to show that I had no intention - in the words of one of my predecessors -of going on, and on and on. I then said straight after the election that I would ensure a stable and orderly transition to a new leader, but I would remind you we are barely one year from that General Election when I was returned to office as Prime Minister. To state a timetable now would simply paralyse the proper working of government, put at risk the necessary changes we are making for Britain and therefore damage the country. It would not end this distraction, but take it to a new level.
It is also clear that though there are those who just genuinely want me to honour the commitment to ensure a stable and orderly transition - and I repeat, I will honour it - and with the time plainly needed for my successor to establish himself (party political content).
I have said there will be a stable and orderly transition to a new leader, I will see that this is done because it is in the interests of the country, but it is also in the interests of this country that in the meantime we get on with the business of governing, carrying through the reforms of pensions, schools, the National Health Service, our Criminal Justice System and focus resolutely on the jobs and living standards of the British people, because that is what they expect us to do having elected us for a third term.
Nick, which part of the government programme would you like to ask me about?
Question and Answer session
Question:
There are so many options, Prime Minister. I think I might return to your position if I might. Notwithstanding what you have said, Prime Minister, your MPs have seen your government lurch from crisis to crisis for months, they have seen their Party punished by the electorate and they ask this question. Couldn’t Gordon Brown renew the Labour Party in office quicker and more effectively than you, and why are you blocking that happening? Are you putting yourself before the interests of your Party?
Tony Blair:
(party political content) Let me just focus on the interests of the country. The interest of the country is that the government that they returned to office for a third time with myself as Prime Minister get on with the business of governing. There are real issues out there that concern people - law and order, pensions, the National Health Service, schools, the economy, their living standards - and they will not thank me (party political content) if instead of concentrating on those issues we engage in endless speculation about when during this Parliament I will stand down. I have said I will ensure a stable and orderly transition. I will do it with the time necessary for my successor to establish themselves but in the meantime (party political content) we should concentrate on governing because I think most people out there are fed up with the endless speculation.
(party political content)
Question:
Well why not stand down and let him do it?
Tony Blair:
(party political content)
Now, where are we strong as a government at the moment? We are strong on policy. Who has got the right ideas for the health service, the schools, for pensions? Even in relation to criminal justice where we have had real problems over the last few weeks, (party political content).
Question:
Two questions really. (party political content) And secondly, on the subject of John Prescott, I know that you see parallels between John Prescott’s role now and what Michael Heseltine did for John Major. Michael Heseltine didn’t enjoy any grace and favour residences and he also hadn’t been demoted, so in those circumstances wouldn’t it be better simply to dispense with John Prescott as Deputy Prime Minister?
Tony Blair:
In relation to that latter point I can only speak as Prime Minister as to what John does for me, but there is kind of a suggestion sometimes in the way that people cover this that when we talk about him chairing the Cabinet Committees, that is what he does, he wanders in and he chairs the Committee and calls the people in, in speaking order, and then wanders off again. The whole point about the Cabinet Committees is that they are set up to resolve problems that stretch over many Departments, so when he is chairing the DA Committee which deals with all the knotty difficult problems in government, it is not just about chairing it, it is about organising a solution to problems.
And I know some of you people do not rate John in relation to this, but I have always found him one of the best people to try and cut a deal across government in a whole range of really, really difficult issues, and we have got a whole lot coming up. And so the very task that Michael Heseltine performed and Viscount Whitelaw performed is a task that he can perform, and that is one of the reasons, I suspect, why most Prime Ministers end up with such a post.
In relation to the first part, there is absolutely no change in my position and the position I have outlined for ages. Look, it is a difficult thing this because a lot of people will say - you will remember when I got into a little bit of an exchange with you guys over in Australia about this. Whoever knows about whether you should answer these questions or not? But I personally think that in the end you are always going to get, when you get into a third term, you will get speculation and it is perfectly natural. The question is as a governing party do you allow it to kind of dominate everything, in which case in the end, because the public out there, they are the boss, it is not me (party political content), the public are the boss in the end and if we are not careful and we don’t just get on with the business of governing we will lose them. So that is what we should do. (party political content)
Question:
Isn’t Iraq your Poll Tax?
Tony Blair:
No, I think if that had been the case at the last Election we would not have been returned to power. And we can go into Iraq again and the reasons and so on but I think that the last Election in a sense dealt with that really.
(party political content)
Question:
Prime Minister have you told Gordon Brown when you think the time might be right for the succession to take place or are you saying he knows no more than the rest of us in this room?
Tony Blair:
I am afraid that I am going to say to that question, which obviously I thought someone might ask me, is that any discussions between myself and Gordon remain discussions between the two of us.
Question:
Have you discussed this with him since the Local Election result?
Tony Blair:
I have discussions with Gordon the whole time.
Question:
Prime Minister, given that you had already lost your Secretary of Defence in the very period when Britain was taking over the NATO Command in Afghanistan, to lose the Foreign Secretary as well must have required a very extreme decision. Here is the question. Why has Jack Straw gone? Is it because he ruled out bombing Iran and you want to keep that option on the table? What did he do wrong?
Tony Blair:
Let me answer this, because of all the speculation that there has been in the newspapers about this. After the last election I had a conversation with Jack in which we agreed that at some point in the not too distant future he would stand down as Foreign Secretary and I indicated to him - in fact he indicated to me, but I agreed - that Leader of the House is the right position for him to oversee the domestic programme in Parliament and because of his status (party political content) generally in Parliament, he is the person that handles Parliament probably better than anyone.
Now the idea that I moved Jack because of Iran - rubbish; because the Americans objected to him - he had a hugely close relationship with Condi Rice as you know - rubbish; the idea, I think bizarrely I read somewhere that I am supposed to have moved him because he advised me to have a Referendum in the European Union Constitution, although it is absolutely true he pressed me very hard to do it, in retrospect he was absolutely right to do so. Jack is an outstanding figure. He was my campaign manager to become Leader of the Labour Party, and what he will do as Leader of the House is far more than the traditional Leader of the House role. He will effectively oversee what is a difficult programme being carried through Parliament (party political content) and any notion that it is linked to a decision about invading Iran - which incidentally we are not going to do - any notion that it is linked to a such a decision is utterly absurd.
Question:
With respect Prime Minister when you gave us the laundry list …
Tony Blair:
Doesn’t it answer the question?
Question:
No it doesn’t. When you gave us the laundry list off the top of your head just now, literally a minute or two ago, of what you proposed to do, the priorities that had to come, reforming Parliament actually you did not return to. That was something you left out. It isn’t so great a priority that it is at the top of your list. And secondly, and surely much more importantly, having as I say lost the Defence Secretary at a critical moment in Afghanistan, to shed the Foreign Secretary on the very eve of critical negotiations in New York seems to me bizarre.
Tony Blair:
John look, there are always critical negotiations in Foreign Affairs. You know, you could actually list another 5 or 6 different issues. You have got Palestine, you have got Sudan, but you could name those issues at any point in time. The fact is that in the end this has got absolutely nothing, he was a superb Foreign Secretary but as I said to you I mean although we did keep saying this to people there was a conversation we had after the election when we agreed there would be a point that it was right for him to move, and this is the point in time now. And as for issues to do with Parliament, well I mentioned them and I am very happy to mention them again. House of Lords reform and party funding are major, major questions.
I think for us to get a clear agreement on the way forward on House of Lords reform is going to be really difficult. Really, really difficult and there is probably nobody better, there is nobody more respected (party political content), and probably across the House, than Jack Straw. So it is perfectly natural when you have got a big domestic programme to have such a figure in charge of it. And it is absolutely no reflection on the job he has done as Foreign Secretary for 5 years which is pretty much as long as most people have done it post-war.
Question:
Happy Birthday Prime Minister.
Tony Blair:
Thank you James, that is very touching.
Question:
Prime Minister, you have set out what you want to do today and in the coming weeks and months. My question is very simple. Do you believe that Labour MPs will give you the time to do that? Ultimately will you be forced out or will you go voluntarily?
(party political content)
Question:
The doubts that some MPs have though are that you have made your commitment this morning that there will be a smooth and orderly transition.
Tony Blair:
I made that after the election.
Question:
You have made that all through, and yet a lot of MPs look at your reshuffle and say look this is not the act of a man who wants a smooth and orderly transition, this is an aggressive reshuffle that doesn’t consult the Chancellor, that demotes his supporters, that promotes yours. That is the way they look at it.
Tony Blair:
(inaudible) demotes the Chancellor’s supporters, if you actually look at the reshuffle, I mean this is what is so bizarre about some of the discussion about it. I think it really is quite hard, I don’t want to start designating people as to whether they are his supporters or not, but if you have a look at the reshuffle, because you guys are so amply capable of doing it for yourselves, I think go and have a look at the reshuffle again and then revise that one.
Question:
Prime Minister, is Gordon Brown still the successor you would choose for yourself or are there other members of your Cabinet right now who could do the job just as well?
Tony Blair:
Of course he is. When have I said anything different? So that is why I suggest that everyone calms down and lets us get on with the business of governing.
Question:
The foreign prisoners scandal has done huge damage to public confidence in the government’s handling of immigration and crime. Why have no heads rolled, apart from Charles Clarke who decapitated himself?
Tony Blair:
Well first of all, incidentally you are absolutely and totally right in saying that if there is any feedback in the local elections, that issue certainly did us significant damage in the course of the last two or three weeks, which is why as I say given the absolute pummelling we got in the last two or three weeks I think many people were expecting worse results. I just would like to go back over this though one more time on the facts. This is a problem that has existed for decades. What happens is that as a result for the first time of proper information being kept, the problem was uncovered. Now changes were then put in place, which means that over these past few weeks, for the first time, and over the past few months in terms of the relationship between prisons and immigration for the first time, there were proper procedures put in place. And to be fair to those Civil Servants that have been working in this area, they have been working in this area in very, very difficult circumstances, which they then began to change last year.
That is why, as I said in the House of Commons last Wednesday, it was round about July time that the person that came, the new person that came in, started to examine the system fundamentally and realised that for example prisons were self-reporting the foreign prisoners in the prison. Now that had been going on for years, and in fact I could show you parliamentary answers from the early 1990s where the then Minister of State at the Home Office was saying there were thousands of prisoners whose nationality we didn’t even know.
What then happened was, as a result of these changes taking place, for the first time Immigration Officers were going directly into prisons and instead of the prisons self-reporting the foreign prisoners, they were going through and actually getting robust figures and robust data. Now that then obviously takes some time to build up, but that is the reason why it took until the end of March this year for a proper system to be put in place. And as I said, because frankly I think it is very tough on Charles actually, very tough, but I ended up taking the view, and I didn’t reach this view until last Thursday, that we were going to be debating this forever in the most unhelpful way unless he moved portfolio. Now these are difficult decisions for Prime Ministers to take and there is no-one who I less wanted to take the decision in respect of, but that is sometimes the way it is.
Question:
Prime Minister, can we now be clear, you have said, I think you said at the election that you intended to serve a full third term, there have been a number of your supporters who whenever these difficulties arise go out and say they want you to serve a full third term, you should serve a full third term. But you are now, I assume, making quite clear that you are not going to serve a full third term and that at some stage, probably after the halfway point of this parliament, you will stand down because that is the only interpretation that can be taken from your remarks. And in future will you instruct, so we don’t get this ridiculous debate, that your supporters, people like the Chief Whip, even the former Home Secretary when they went on the radio would always say they wanted you to serve a full third term, and that is why we get this confusion. So you are now saying to us, in terms, you will not serve a full third term?
Tony Blair:
George, I don’t resile from anything that I have said about this, but obviously if you are going to make a transition it has got to be in time for someone to settle down, and it is as simple as that. And for the rest of it, as I say, we should just get on with the business of governing.
Question:
… two important reports coming this week on terrorism to do with some of the security failures that led to the 7/7 bombings last year. The Chancellor said yesterday that there should be structural changes long term in the Home Office. Do you agree with him, and do you think this is the time when you should be looking at a Minister for Home Security?
Tony Blair:
First of all I would not prejudge what the reports say, and my own view is that our security services have done a magnificent job, and I know of nothing that would indicate they should have known or been able to prevent the attack. So I would be really wary of you know pre-reporting what the report says and wait for it on Thursday. I think the debate about homeland security is a very difficult one. We have a security coordinator, we have got a Minister obviously that is in charge of this, but a security coordinator right across government, and my own judgment about this, but it is perfectly possible to take an alternative view I accept, my own judgment about this is that there is not a structural problem.
The problem is very, very simple, the problem is that you need both to have sufficient numbers of people in the security services that are out there monitoring what is happening in the community, but you also, which is the reason why I have made a structural change actually, I have moved from the Home Office the communities part of this and transferred it into Ruth Kelly’s department, and that is for a very simple reason - I do want to see a quite significant overhaul of the way that we engage, particularly with the Muslim community, because in my view, as I have set out in some of the speeches recently, the only way we are going to overcome this threat is to confront it head on from within the community and I think we need a new generation of young Muslim men and women as leaders of their community who are prepared to do that.
(party political content)
Question:
Prime Minister, in the past you have described Guantanamo as an anomaly, which needs to be rectified, corrected, addressed. How much longer do you think it can continue without being addressed and sorted out?
Tony Blair:
Well it is a difficult situation since the Americans believe, for understandable reasons, that those who are in Guantanamo would if simply released pose a threat. But we have got to get some form of judicial process that is proper and independent that allows these cases to be dealt with and then Guantanamo to be closed, and I am sure that is what the Administration want as well.
Question:
But don’t you think that there should be more urgency given the conditions that we are told some of these detainees are held under?
Tony Blair:
Well the conditions as far as I understand them, and we checked this very carefully when our people were there, are subject to continual review and so they should be. But I have always said that this is an anomaly and the sooner it is dealt with the better, so I think it is sensible to do that.
Question:
Isn’t the fundamental problem here that you have yet to convince the Chancellor that you are serious about a stable and orderly transition? You had conversations with him after the local elections and still he went on the television on Sunday sending out smoke signals. Until you have convinced him, never mind all the Labour MPs who are fighting the battle by proxy, this problem is not going to go away. Do you think you can convince him?
Tony Blair:
As I say I am not going to comment on any discussions I have had, but I think the most important thing, and we should never ever forget this in politics, you start worrying too much about your internal questions and you make a big, big mistake because the public out there are watching us at the moment and they want us to return to their agenda, that is what they elect us for, they elect us to sort their problems out. And as I say for all the reasons I have given I think it is perfectly simple for us to find a sensible way forward, but we should do.
Question:
But you haven’t done yet?
Tony Blair:
I think there is a perfectly sensible way forward, it is the one I have set out and I am sure that …
Question:
But you haven’t convinced him, that is why this is happening.
Tony Blair:
Well you say that, but you are not in a position to know Gary, with the greatest respect.
Question:
… with hand on heart.
Tony Blair:
I certainly do, yes.
Question:
Prime Minister, you keep telling us it is only a year since you fought the last election.
Tony Blair:
It seems longer to you, does it?
Question:
It does indeed. How come your judgment was so awry then that you have had to make such sweeping changes in your Cabinet now? And on the question of replacing the Foreign Secretary, you have said that it is nothing to do with Jack’s views about the … bombing of Iran, but a lot of people in the outside world are worried that that lay behind the decision. So can you reassure them by saying that you share his opinion that any military attack on Iran is inconceivable and that a nuclear strike would be, in his words, completely nuts?
Tony Blair:
Well I don’t know anybody who has ever talked or even contemplated the prospects of a nuclear strike on Iran and that would be absolutely absurd, which may be a different way of saying what you have just quoted to me, but it has got nothing to do with that. And look in the end I am afraid, as the Prime Minister you do reshuffle your Cabinet from time to time, it is what happens. And I think if you look at it there are all very good reasons for moving people, and I do just remind you, as I have said, that this is part of something I discussed with Jack straight after the last election. You know five years has been a very good stint from a very good Foreign Secretary.
Question:
Could you tell us something to reassure the Arab and Muslim world that Margaret Beckett will be able to handle the difficult questions we have now in Iraq and in Palestine, Israel. I heard Polly Toynbee saying yesterday that she has a lot of good background and we haven’t heard except you know how good and knowledgeable Straw is, you know, could you tell us a little bit about Margaret Beckett’s background and why you chose her as Foreign Secretary?
Tony Blair:
Yes, I chose Margaret because she is an outstanding politician, a very, very safe pair of hands, she has got immense international experience as well as domestic experience, and I have absolutely no doubt that the foreign policy that was articulated by Jack will not change one iota under Margaret.
(party political content)
Question:
Will John Prescott have a role in ensuring an orderly transition, and will we expect to hear any more details of his job description over the coming week?
Tony Blair:
Well I think I have said enough on the transition issue. But the only thing I would point out to you, again in relation to what John does, is that, as I say, these Cabinet Committees involve the crosscutting issues in government. For example, over the next few weeks as we prepare to put forward the pensions proposals there is going to be some very, very tough decision making and negotiating. He will be very, very heavily involved in that process. When you come to the energy review, let’s be clear, I think it is not going to come as startling news to you to realise there are different views in government about this and different views probably in the PLP. He will be the person in the end that will be chairing the relevant committees that put it altogether. So it is rather more than, as I say, simply wondering in and sitting down and nodding people to come in at particular times in the discussion.
Question:
Prime Minister, do you agree with the US Vice President’s assessment that the Russians are in danger of using their energy policy for political ends, or are you with the Russians deeply puzzled by that view?
Tony Blair:
I think I am deeply by-passing that particular debate, partly because I haven’t actually seen the Vice President’s remarks, if you will forgive me, nor the Russians’ response.
Question:
(inaudible) bearing in mind the importance that you have given London to Labour’s future today, will it be a Londoner with a London seat that you appoint, can you assure us that that will be the case? After all, you wouldn’t give Scotland an English Minister.
Tony Blair:
Yes I can assure you that that will indeed be the case.
Question:
There is so much speculation and gossip about the political marriage between you and Gordon Brown, can you give us an assessment of the current state of the relationship? Do you have his 100% loyalty and has all the recent speculation caused any strain between the two of you?
Tony Blair:
Those are the really dangerous questions that you get asked. No, I have got nothing really to say. My great desire is not to add to the immense amount of (inaudible) that there is about all this.
Question:
But do you believe you have his 100% loyalty?
Tony Blair:
Of course. (party political content)
Question:
I just wonder if the Australian in Guantanamo Bay, David Hicks, if he beats your government in court and gets a British passport, would you request that the Americans release him? And I also wanted to ask another question, have you ever asked John Howard why he has been in power one year longer than you, yet he has none of this succession drama even though he has got an equally ambitious Treasurer or Chancellor?
Tony Blair:
Yes, I think he is just probably an immensely capable and professional politician.
Question:
But did you ever ask him?
Tony Blair:
I think we will keep silent on that one if you don’t mind. In respect of the first, I can’t comment on that because there is a court case, and that is not a, well it is a way of avoiding answering the question but it also happens to be true.
Question:
I wanted to return to the subject of the Deputy Prime Minister. You have made a case for the complexity and the difficulty of the job that he does, but the fact is last Friday you stripped him of responsibility for a major government department and he is doing far less than he was before. How do you think that plays with the public out there that you talked about earlier? You came to office saying that you weren’t there to enjoy the trappings of power and yet you know we have a man with two government houses and the salary to go with it.
Tony Blair:
I think as I say, the important thing is just to focus on the work that he will be doing, and obviously he is able to focus on that more than previously when he also had a department to work on. And part of the reason I think you want to see something of the changes that I have made both in the Whip’s office and with Jack as well, is that I think for the next period of time, if you like, if you look at the months to come and the next parliamentary session, we have got a huge agenda. As I say that is the difference between when people make these sort of glib comparisons with the Major government. We have got a huge agenda moving forward and it requires an immense amount of political brokerage and parliamentary debate and management. And as I say, I am not the first Prime Minister. In fact both my predecessors were in the same position of having somebody who could organise these things.
Question:
Prime Minister, surely you are aware that your ratings remain rock solid - in the United States.
Tony Blair:
Thank you for that Amy.
Question:
And I am just wondering to what extent you think that your cosy relationship, or your strong relationship let’s say with President Bush and with the Americans may have been a liability for you of late?
Tony Blair:
Not at all.
Tony Blair:
Last week in parliament you said that you wanted to, or that your government would automatically, deport all foreign convicted criminals. Can I ask you if you are confident that you can do that? And just as an aside, can I ask if you think there is anyone in government who doesn’t agree that Gordon Brown is the best man to replace you?
Tony Blair:
On the last thing I am afraid no. On the foreign prisoners, let me just, because there has been a bit of a misrepresentation or misunderstanding about what Charlie Falconer said yesterday.
Look, what I said in parliament, and we are talking about foreign prisoners, so by their very nature the people that you are talking about deporting are people who have served a prison sentence. So when I said in parliament somebody who has been convicted of a serious criminal offence, it has to be sufficiently serious otherwise they wouldn’t be in jail. So when the interviewer is saying ah so that means somebody who in theory could be convicted of an imprisonable offence but isn’t imprisoned, the situation is not the same. What I am saying is, and I am absolutely sure we can deliver on this as I said in parliament last week, if you are convicted of a serious criminal offence, and ipso facto since we are talking about foreign prisoners you become a prisoner, in my view you should be deported automatically, yes. Look, if somebody commits a serious enough criminal offence to go to jail in this country and they are not a British citizen I think it is perfectly reasonable for the country to say at the conclusion of that sentence you leave the country. Because if you want to come here and be here, then you shouldn’t carry on being here if you are a danger to the public and again, by its very nature, if somebody has gone to prison it is because they are (inaudible).
Question:
(inaudible) on your ability to deport all these people.
Tony Blair:
Well you say that. There is one issue, which is the same issue in the deportation cases we have, of those people we believe are not conducive to the public good because they are inciting let’s say hatred in this country of our way of life, and the issue is can we ensure that those court decisions that are there at the moment, and incidentally are not to do with the Human Rights Act, they are to do with the European Convention on Human Rights, but those court decisions, can we get to a better more sensible balance between the interests of the collective as a whole, the people as a whole, and the interests of the individual. And I believe that we can. There are cases that are going to be fought out and in fact are in front of the courts now, that will determine a lot of this.
And as I have already said, if we find that those court cases go against us then I think we have got to legislate because the whole issue, and as I say when we actually return to the political agenda that concerns people, there is a real issue out in the country in my view which kind of illustrates what is most irritating for the public about the Westminster Village, of which I am a part and you are a part, is that out in the country I think there is a big, big debate going on about the nature of civil liberties in the modern world. And I think there is a genuine intellectual debate about that, where I have a very strong position of disagreement with some of those people who have a very traditional view of civil liberties.
And my view is for example that it is wrong if someone is a threat to this country, to our security or to people here, it is wrong that we are prevented from deporting them because they may go back to a country where we can’t guarantee their safety 100%. Because in my view, if someone comes and threatens this country I am afraid they have got to take the risk of problems in their own country when they go back. But what is absurd in my view, but this is the debate we have got to have, is to say that their civil liberties are absolute and override the security of the country. Now I think out in the country that is a huge debate. We are not really having it in politics at the moment properly. Even the foreign prisoners.
The whole point about the foreign prisoners debate is that there was a backlog of cases of foreign prisoners who, before their release date, should have been considered for deportation and were only considered after their release date. There is that debate, but that backlog has existed for years. But a far bigger debate is that even if you are convicted of a serious criminal offence it has been the practice for decades to only deport people, probably about half of them. Now I think most people in the country would say never mind how you deal with the backlog, is it right as a matter of principle that somebody who is convicted for example of a serious assault or rape, we should be obliged to keep them in this country when they are not a national of this country because they may face difficulty when they return to their own country.
Now that is a debate about civil liberties and it is a debate we should have. It is why I got into the interesting discussion with the Observer with Mr Porter, but I think that debate is absolutely central to the future of this country and if we were having that debate we would be in a lot better shape I think.
Question:
… new statistic that has come out while you have been speaking, the Home Office have just announced that at least 150 of the most serious offenders were never considered for deportation. That is hugely higher than the figures we were told just a few days ago. Are you shocked by the scale of that?
Tony Blair:
Well I haven’t seen these particular figures that you are talking about now.
Question:
It has just been announced that it is at least 150 in the most serious category.
Tony Blair:
You have to work out exactly which category they are in. But let me just make it absolutely clear to you, it is not merely a case of the prisoners that have not been considered for deportation, because the failure to consider all those prisoners has been going on for years, and years, and years. We have now got a situation in which they were dealing with the backlog, all of them are considered for deportation. But even if you consider those prisoners, you have still got the ones that have been considered for deportation and deportation has been turned down, even in circumstances where the court has recommended their deportation. And again that practice has existed for decades, and the question is do you change that? Because that is the fundamental issue here.
Question:
Is it a cause for concern that a normally loyal MP like Jane Kennedy has resigned from her Ministerial post because she feels that she wasn’t listened to? And do you worry at all that if Ministers and backbenchers are feeling completely marginalised that they are not perhaps going to be as supportive as they should be, and will you do anything about it?
Tony Blair:
Well Jane was a very, very good Minister but she felt very, very strongly about a particular issue to do with, I think really, appointments within the Health Service. (party political content)
Question:
Could you comment on the victory of Romano Prodi and the centre left in Italy and do you expect to have a good relationship with him as well as you had with Silvio Berlusconi?
Tony Blair:
Well I would remind you that I think I advocated the appointment of Romano Prodi to the European Commission, as the Presidency, and I have known Romano for many, many years so I am sure I will have a very good working relationship with him and I look forward to meeting him within the next few weeks.
Question:
Prime Minister, a personal rather than a political question. When you decide, how emotionally difficult will it be for you to give up this job?
Tony Blair:
I don’t know. I think we probably need an entire government committee to consider that one.
Question:
Inaudible.
Tony Blair:
I will tell you what I think actually. I think it is a privilege to do this job and I think the most important thing is what you do whilst you are Prime Minister because that is what colours your view of how you have done. And people will make that judgment at a later time.
Question:
(party political content) We also learned today of another 800 potential job losses in the black country at NTL Telewest, adding to fears of recession in the west Midlands. Are the Tories’ successes a result of fears of recession in the west Midlands or a wider comment on the government’s record?
Tony Blair:
(party political content) I think there are real concerns about manufacturing, and that is for a very, very sensible reason incidentally, because there are pressures as a result of globalisation that are making it genuinely difficult for companies as they restructure in a fast changing global market. And the only honest way of any government approaching this is not to promise people we can guarantee you the same job as you have always done, but to guarantee people that if they are displaced from their job we will do our utmost to help them find a new one, and to keep the economy strong and stable so that fresh jobs are continually being generated. And whereas in the west Midlands during the period of the late ’80s and early ’90s thousands of jobs were being lost with very little prospect of people getting new jobs, now fortunately we do have a strong enough economy so that people have a decent chance of getting a new job.
Question:
You paid tribute to the great job that the Army is doing in southern Iraq and an orderly withdrawal from southern Iraq cannot actually happen before the Iraqis themselves can look after themselves, and that again cannot happen without putting more troops in. Now the Army is very stretched at the moment, as you know with cuts in the Armed Forces, how can you reconcile the two views?
Tony Blair:
Well what is happening is the whole time the Iraqi capability is being built up. A year ago you didn’t have anything like 200,000 Iraqi forces. And the whole purpose is that there should be a process whereby we can draw down our troops as the Iraqi capability takes over the activities of security enforcement, and that is what will happen. And I spoke to the new Iraqi Prime Minister a short time ago. I hope very much that within the next week to ten days we will have a proper new government in Iraq.
We will then sit down and work out with them what can happen with the multinational force for the future, and I think you could see Iraq get into a very different place if we are able to agree both the formation of that government, which is obviously a matter for the Iraqis, and a proper process of change. Because it is the desire of both of us to ensure that Iraq is able to mature into the stable democracy its people want, and that requires us, obviously, to stay until the job is done, but, to get the job done as fast as possible.
Question:
But we need actually more troops on the ground. I have just been there recently and there are clearly not enough troops there.
Tony Blair:
Well you say that but I think for many people in Iraq it is not more foreign troops they would welcome, it is greater capability from the Iraqis themselves and that is being built up the whole time. And as I say I think you will find in the next few weeks that we have got some things to say about that that may give people some sense of certainty about the future.
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