Human Rights webchat
23 May 2007
Many thanks for all your questions for Baroness Ashton. She answered as many as she could in the time she had available. You can read the unedited Q&A transcript below.
Read the transcript
Cathy says: Welcome to everyone who is joining me today for the live webchat on Human Rights. My name is Cathy Ashton, and I am the Minister in the Ministry of Justice responsible for Human Rights. I look forward to talking to you today.
John Roberts: Why does the Government not accept that freedom of information is essential in a mature, properly functioning democracy, and that the present proposals to limit access to information are calculated to do nothing other than prevent inconvenient and potentially politically embarrassing access to official information by journalists and others with a legitimate interest in investigation of the conduct and affairs of public bodies? It is the purest nonsense that it is about cost control and that FoI is for citizens and not journalists. This is a quite disgraceful manifestation of the Government regretting what it did with the FoI legislation and now trying to cut the legs off it. The cost saving is trivial, especially in the light of the massive sums wasted by Government elsewhere; the cost to democracy and the Govt's reputation for close control and a preference for secrecy is immense.
Cathy replies:
John, I agree with you that a mature and strong democracy needs FOI. It is essential that people can get information from public authorities that directly affects their lives - whether from schools, hospitals, police forces, central or local government.
Part of my job is to look at how the Act is operating, encourage more pro-active release of information and look for problems. One of the concerns that organisations have is that some requests take huge amounts of time, and require staff to be taken from their every day jobs. Where possible we encourage the requestor to refine their request to make it easier to give them what they want - or to stagger the request over time. But where that is not possible we need to think about alternatives. That is why I am consulting on the proposed regulations at the moment.
Jill Sanders: You are under-secretary of state for Information Rights. What is your view of
1. MPs exempting themselves from Freedom of Information
2. The argument that data protection is in conflict with FoI
3. The current consultation on amendments to FoI which will water it down/make it more difficult/ make it less accessible to those wanting to use it.
And do you believe that our right to information held by authorities accountable to the public and providing public services is, indeed, our right?
Do you believe, as I do, that we are told too little and we are required to disclose (often without our knowledge) too much?
Cathy replies:
HI Jill - I believe that FOI is important to better government and improving confidence in our democracy and institutions. To answer your specific questions - Parliament has to take a view on the Bill bearing in mind the real concerns that MPs have, but also being aware of the concerns raised in making this decision. It is up to Parliament to have the final say.
Data Protection is important but I don't believe it is in conflict with FOI - rather it is a safeguard for personal data, setting out the principles of how data is to be stored and used. The consultation on FOI, as I was saying to John, is designed to deal with a particular problem of some requests requiring staff to spend huge amounts of time reading documents.
nicky mccann: Why are law breakers given more rights than honest hard working tax paying citizens. Most people believe that when someone breaks the law, they shouls forgo all their rights.
When is the human rights law going to look after the innocent honest people first, why is it always the criminal that has got rights.
Cathy replies:
Hi NIcky, the Human Rights Act is about how the Government, and public bodies like hospitals, schools, police services treat all of us, by setting out some basic rights. So, for example, the right to a fair trial, the right to family life, the right not to be tortured or treated inhumanely. This is important - it means that you and I know we can expect to be treated fairly and with respect and dignity.
For example, this has been established in caring for the elderly. So, when a couple after 65 years of marriage were told they had to go into separate carehomes, they were able to argue that this breached their rights - and the decision was reversed. Equally, those with disabilities who need care know that they must be treated properly - and so on.
The stories that appear in the media are usually wrong. So, the man given Kentucky Fried Chicken to get him off the roof was not given KFC because of his human rights - rather it was a judgement by the local police that feeding him and establishing a relationship with him would get him down. The story that Denis Nilsen got porn in prison is rubbish. Basically, if you apply common sense to thinking about human rights you are probably in the right place.
Kurt Robinson: Hello Cathy,
What is your view on the current situation where we in the West (in the UK and US in particular), are being asked to voluntarily give up our rights and freedoms in exchange for the State's 'protection' from a 'dark force' labelled 'Al Queda'?
The current human rights climate in the West seems to be 'Security IS Slavery'........
Regards,
Kurt
Cathy replies: Kurt, the first job of Government is to keep people safe. That responsibility means considering ways in which our police and security services can be as effective as possible in tackling serious and organised crime and terrrorism. But we do that against a backdrop of human rights and democratic accountability - making sure that we do not give up the values we hold dear. I don't believe that we have given up fundamental rights and freedoms in this country, but we do expect our Government to allow us to go about our daily lives as safely and securely as possible.
Bill: Do you beleive in this day and age, people should have the right to remain silent and thus not to incriminate oneself ? Do you think we should move towards the French system where you have to prove your innocence instead of ours where the prosecutor has to prove your guilt ?
Cathy replies: Whichever system you use, the critical question is to make sure that the case is proven effectively in court. Our system has served us well based on the proposition of innocent until proven guilty.
Richard: A great deal is written about Human Rights. But do you have anything to say about formulating a bill of Human Responsibilities?
Cathy replies: Hi Richard, I often get asked this! Actually if you accept, for example, your right to privacy, to family life, to free assembly, there is an inbuilt responsibility to let other people enjoy the same. So responsibilities are there too. But many people think we should make it more explicit - but it does not mean that unless you behave responsibly you lose your rights. Rights are there for everyone - to be treated with dignity and respect, but I agree people need to understand their responsibilities too.
K.V.RAMANA MURTHY: The racial discrimination comes under Human Rights. Its the responsibility of the State to educate the people against such discriminations. What are the steps that the Governmental authorities are taking in the interest of wide sections of people? The Shilpa Shetty (of India) episode should not repeat in future so that the entire world have respect over human rights.
Cathy replies: Hi, we are creating a new Commission for Equality and Human Rights which opens its doors in October. The Commission brings together the Commission for Racial Equality, the Disability Rights Commission and the Equal Opportunities Commission and will also tackle discrimination against gay and lesbian people, older people and discrimination on grounds of faith or belief. Part of its role will be education. The Shilpa Shetty episode was awful, but I was relieved to see so many people being extremely upset at her treatment.
Richard: Isn't international law and its emphasis on the soverignty of states, which allows them to get away with no end of human rights abuses, a major obstacle to genuinely promoting human rights? basically, if governments want to ignore human rights, they can and do.
Cathy replies: Hi Richard, the international treaties - for example the UN Convention Against Torture - are binding in international law. 47 countries are part of the Council of Europe and have signed up to the European Convention on Human Rights. It is only through working together internationally that we can make sure countries take their obligations seriously. Do we have more work to do? Undoubtedly yes.
Caroline Ellis: The recent UN Disability Convention - which the UK played a major role in negotiating - translates vital human rights standards into a form and language that reflects the daily concerns and aspirations of disabled people. Central to the Convention are provisions which set out rights to independent living ie to , choice, control over one's living and support arrangements and to a level of support that guarantees dignity and enables participation. When can we expect these vital standards to be enshrined in community care law so that we literally bring human rights into the homes and into the daily lives of disabled people and their families now and in the future?
Cathy replies: Hi Caroline, we signed to Convention on the first day it was open for signature and we intend to formally ratify it as soon as possible. Part of this process is working out what needs to change, if anything, in our domestic law, working with organisations to make sure that we tackle these issues effectively. I hope we will be able to do this very soon.
Makosa: Human rights violations are worsening in Zimbabwe by the minute.What role have you played to assist in efforts by the international community to bring these abuses to an end?
Cathy replies:
The situation in Zimbabwe is terrible and we have taken the lead in the United Nations to get as much pressure as possible from the international community.
We will continue to support human rights defenders in Zimbabwe, and work with our international partners to keep the issue at the forefront of world opinion.
Richard Bowell: The potential sending of Simon Mann to a prison in Equatorial Guinea has brought to our attention the depravity of jails in Africa. It has also rebrought to our attention the depravity of some despots in Africa. The cooruption and depravity of many dictators around the world seems to even far exceed that of Sadam Hussein in Iraq. What can we do about it? Sending in troops into Iraq has made it worse in Iraq. What can we do put an end to despotic tyranny around the world? I am not related to Simon Mann. My concern is for Simon Mann, any other prisoner in these vile prisons, and people who live under the rule of such evil tyrants as the President of Equatorial Guinea.
Cathy replies:
Hello Richard. One of the areas of work that I have been involved in is to look at how we can make the judicial systems in other countries more effective. For example, helping them to root out corruption in the police, courts or prison services. We were one of the first countries in the world to ratify the optional protocol to the UN Convention Against Torture which sets up an international body to monitor conditions of detention throughout the world.
We are working with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, Home Office, Department for InternationalDevelopment and the Attorney General. Our ambition is that the rule of law should apply; individuals should get fair trials and the quality of prisons should be improved. We have been doing important work on this in Africa.
shaun walmsley: my main concern is human rights,religous freedom and freedom from internet censohip in countries such as china,north korea,iran and other human rights "blakspots" i think the goverment should do all it can to champion the cause of human rights in these areas in particular
Cathy replies: Hello Shaun, we do work with other countries to raise issues of human rights and freedoms - and of course, through the international treaties that we are signatories to, we encourage others to have the highest possible standards.
S R Burdon: Good Morning,
My question is based on whether it is a disabled persons right to expect that a UK Govt Dept should provide/install a disabled toilet if it is necessary to ensure an individuals rights to have the necessary facilities to continue in employment without further detriment to their health.
Cathy replies: Good morning to you - it sounds as if you have some personal experience here that needs to be addressed. You should look at the Disability Discrimination Act and the provisions on "reasonable adjustment" and then take this up with the department concerned.
Moeen Raoof: Why is the Foreign Office and DFID allowed to employ the services of the Private Security Companies (PSCs), or Mercenaries, in Iraq and Afghanistan despite the fact that the UK has British Armed Forces Personnel on the ground perfectly capable of carrying out the varied security tasks.
The PSCs have been responsible for crimes against humanity and should be charged accordingly.
What action do you propose to take on behalf of the government and what action do you propose we take against these mercenaries.
Cathy replies: Hi Moeen, there are provisions in international and humanitarian and human rights law which apply to the operations of Private Military and Security Companies (PMSCs). They are also subject to the national law of the countries in which they are operating. We work with the Birtish Association of Private Security Companies, PMSC representatives and with the Security Industry Authority to encourage best practice and adherence to these standards.
Jennifer Morton: The new Ministry of Justice causes several constitutional problems due to the functions it manages (courts and prisons in same budget). Do you anticipate that this could affect the operation of Article 6? For example, the courts are expected to be procedurally fair, but will this happen if the defendant controls their budget??
Cathy replies: Hi Jennifer - the Lord Chancellor under the Constitutional Reform Act has responsibilities for the independence of the Judiciary and the management of courts. I presume you are suggesting there is a problem where the Government is being taken to court over an issue? Well, that can happen now, and there is no doubt that courts are procedurally fair and the process is independent - that will not change.
Mary Goldsmith: What exactly is this Government doing about the apalling contravention of human rights in Syria, where many innocent people are detained, in underground cells, subject to Torture, and detained without food even before a trial takes place or investigations take place?
Cathy replies: Hello Mary - working to try and get states to adhere to human rights is an important part of our work in the Council of Europe, through the UN and through the treaties to which we are signatories.
Seth Baidoo: If the Government is supporting the Remploy Ltd. Board to close some of the factories knowing very well most of the disable workers are unemployable. These people are trained to do jobs which in the Factories which are carried out perfectly ok with supervision. If they are laid off as proposed where are they going to work and where does human right come in here?
Cathy replies: Hi Seth, most people with disabilities are keen to work and are able to do so. Human rights are about treating everyone with dignity and respect, offering them opportunities to use their skills and seeing the person not the disability.
susy: what has happened to human rights if i wantt to smoke i will smoke what is wrong with having smoking aerias and non smoking places people do not have to in a smoking place if this was so think of all the tax the govenment will lose if nobody baught ciggaretes
Cathy replies: Susy, your desire to smoke has to be balanced with other people's desire to have a smoke-free atmosphere. The only way to make sure that people don't have to breathe your smoke is to create smoke-free public places. The tax is more than spent by the numbers of people who have to go to hospital every year with illnesses caused by smoking - I hope you give up!
Cathy says: The variety of questions shows how important Human Rights issues are to our daily lives - common sense, common values. Thank you for giving me the chance to answer your questions.
Moderator says: Thanks for all your questions. We're planning two more webchats next week, so make sure you keep an eye on pm.gov.uk for information.
