The Cabinet Room

Simon Schama's tour of Downing Street continues in the Cabinet Room, in the company of Tony Blair.

Read the transcript for the film below:

Simon Schama:

William Kent designed the look of 10 Downing Street for Sir Robert Walpole, and for him the place at its heart was the Cabinet Room, the symbol of collective government. This is where every Cabinet has met since the 18th century, with just a few exceptions, such as the Second World War. The room was expanded in 1796 to incorporate those two grandly elegant columns. The room is dominated by the Cabinet table, which has the same 23 Victorian chairs used at the time of Gladstone. Underneath a portrait of the first prime minister, Sir Robert Walpole, stands the chair of the prime minister, always left sitting apart from the table.

Tony Blair:

With this table shaped in this way, introduced by Macmillan?

Simon Schama:

It was introduced by Macmillan, and it's been called, I can't remember by whom, either boat- or coffin-shaped, sort of perfect peripheral vision.

Tony Blair:

Yes, you can engage everybody. Yeah. See those who are making... the odd expression.

Simon Schama:

But nobody sits in any particular order at all, right?

Tony Blair:

Yes. No, they have a designated seat.

Simon Schama:

Oh, they do?

Tony Blair:

It can change every time you reshuffle. You shift people around.

Simon Schama:

But is that offices of state decides that?

Tony Blair:

No.

Simon Schama:

Or is it the people who occupy them? Or you decide that?

Tony Blair:

I suppose I do, officially.

Simon Schama:

Interesting.

Tony Blair:

But... And this is Walpole.

Simon Schama:

Yes, I know. I'll tell you about Walpole. It's so interesting to me that Downing Street, he's given it by George II. And Walpole is the great accumulator of profit and plunder and has his big house in Norfolk and a very beautiful house in Richmond. But he says, "I will take it on condition it goes to all subsequent First Lords of the Treasury, all subsequent prime ministers." So Walpole has a civic, public, patriotic, altruistic side to him, as well as being the machine politician. Do you feel his ghost breathing on your neck?

Tony Blair:

The thing I always think about Walpole is that he always reminds me of the late John Smith who was the Labour leader before me.

Simon Schama:

Really?

Tony Blair:

He had the same mixture of charm and firmness. John was a very, very strong personality who would put you in your place pretty quick. And I think Walpole was very similar.

Simon Schama:

It was said that of Walpole, yes. Until 1856, the Cabinet Room was also Number 10's library and had a stock of maps. You can almost imagine Palmerston spreading one of them out to consider matters of war and peace. Now just two bookcases remain, with volumes placed there by ministers. This is fantastic. I think it's an accident of the alphabet. We've got Chamberlain and Churchill next to each other. And here, really right at the end of Chamberlain's Struggle for Peace, absolutely unrepentant, a list of speeches, really, "to make our position clear", but not clear enough, "guarantee against invasion". It's poignant, actually, I think.

Tony Blair:

It is. I think one of the fascinating things about Chamberlain was that he tried to do the right thing by the country. And all the way through these speeches, actually, some of which I know, you can see how he is, in a sense, wrestling with the fact that however evil Hitler is, the thought of war is just so horrific.

Simon Schama:

Have you ever opened the book cabinet, come in, snuck in, from your study?

Tony Blair:

As a matter of fact, I haven't, no. But I remember when we were having the Northern Ireland negotiations at a certain point, and we were seeing David Trimble and the Unionist Party, then Gerry Adams and Sinn Féin. There was a lull in the proceedings, and David Trimble came in here and pulled up a chair and took out the volume next to Churchill...

Simon Schama:

Cromwell. Oh, my goodness.

Tony Blair:

Which was Cromwell. And Gerry Adams came in to the room for something and said to him, "What are you reading?" He said, with a certain amount of delight, "Cromwell."

Simon Schama:

What a rotten thing to do. But peace triumphed in the end.

Tony Blair:

It did. It did indeed. Yes.