20 July 2007
Mr Brown has announced plans to persuade countries from across the EU to lower taxes on environmentally friendly products. A proposal will be put to the European Commission on behalf of both Britain and France.
- PM to press for lower taxes on green goods
- Britain and France come up with "plan of action" for Darfur
- PM announces Anglo-French working party to fight terror
- Read our French language version of the Downing Street website
Read the transcript
Mr Sarkozy:
[Indistinct] friend of France, but also because he is someone I have worked extensively with when I was Minister for Finance and he was Chancellor of the Exchequer. And I should say he has been one of Europe’s most brilliant Ministers for Finance for the past ten years and he has led the British economy from success to success. He is therefore a man I hold in high regard, I know him well and I welcomed him this morning and I would like to thank him for having come so swiftly to France. He wanted to come even earlier but it was not possible, because of us, because we had a meeting with the German Chancellor Angela Merkel in Toulouse. He wanted to come for lunch, we were already in Toulouse, it was not possible but thank you for coming today.
Now with our British friends we covered a lot of ground which I would like to say a few words about before Gordon himself takes the floor and answers your questions.
First of all we wish to take a very strong initiative to defend the environment and restore and safeguard balance and equilibrium on our planet. You know this is a longstanding struggle that both I and Gordon have been waging. We are going to ask our two Ministers, French and British, to go to the Commission, to suggest to the Commission that all clean products benefit from reduced VAT rates. It is not right and proper that a polluting car is less expensive than a clean car. This is a Franco-British initiative that enables us to set an example on a very specific concrete case.
I would also like to say that on the issue of Darfur, on which Gordon is highly committed, just as we are, we will be submitting and defending the draft resolution before the UN. We will ask our two Foreign Secretaries, the French and the British Foreign Ministers, to go there with the same message, a simple message: this can no longer go on, there is urgency to act, people are dying, people are suffering and this has to stop. Gordon of course will explain the details of this resolution. I am prepared to say that we would even be prepared, were the resolution to pass, to go to Darfur, to Chad and to Sudan together ourselves.
We will also be setting up a Joint Committee that will meet every quarter, on a quarterly basis therefore, to exchange intelligence and information on the subject of our fight against terrorism. We want to strengthen our cooperation on the way we work on this front.
Lastly we will be working on a wide range of issues, in particular defence-related issues, working up to the forthcoming Franco-British Summit which will be held in the UK sometime in the autumn months, in any event before the end of the year.
So you see we have done good work together. We speak over the phone almost on a weekly basis and I can tell you that on all the range of issues discussed there is a common determination on both Gordon Brown’s and my part to work hand in glove to work together to strengthen the links between France and the UK and to take initiatives to push and move Europe forward.
Prime Minister:
Can I say first of all what a privilege it is for me to come to Paris so soon after becoming Prime Minister of Britain to renew my friendship with Nicolas Sarkozy, to congratulate him on his leadership of France, of Europe and the leadership he is showing throughout the world, and to say that relationships between our two countries are strong and strengthening for the years to come. It is 103 years since the entente cordiale was signed between France and Britain and I believe we are entering a second century of cooperation on a range of issues where we can not only benefit the citizens of our own countries, but make a contribution to the peace and prosperity of the world.
Nicolas Sarkozy was a brilliant Finance Minister and I enjoyed working with him on a whole range of international issues and on trying to bring prosperity to both our economies. He was a brilliant Interior Minister and now he is proving by his leadership as President, not just in France but round the world, that he is making a huge impact in resolving some of the great challenges that face our generation.
We talked about three very great challenges and how our two countries can cooperate more effectively in the future to meet these challenges, not just to the benefit of ourselves but to the benefit of the whole continent and to the world.
The first is the common challenge we face on terrorism and security. Here together we are setting up a joint working party so that we can exchange information on a regular basis and we can work together to deal with the causes and the consequences of terrorism and the threats to security in both our countries. And I believe that this is one of the great challenges that we will face not just for the next few years but for decades ahead. It is incredibly important that the two great countries of France and Britain share our common experiences and work together to deal with this huge issue.
The second area where cooperation will immediately be strengthened is on the environment and on the economy. France has made a huge contribution to the debate about climate change and we look forward together to working for a new worldwide agreement that would mean a reduction in carbon and that we could meet the targets that we have set for reducing emissions generally. Today we talked about a European initiative that we believe could send out a very important message about what we think about pollution and about what we can do to make for a more energy efficient and environmentally friendly continent. And we will together, both our Finance Ministers, propose to the European Commission that it is now time and it cannot wait much longer that we give new incentives for people who are wanting to buy environmentally friendly products and make it clear that we are prepared to favour these in preference to environmentally unfriendly and wasteful products for the environment. And our proposal that we would have reduced rate taxation on VAT, on Value Added Tax, for environmentally friendly products from fridges to insulation, for all the major goods that may pollute but actually by being produced in a way that are environmentally friendly can actually benefit the environment is one that we hope all other European countries will support. We will determinedly push this proposal forward, both in the European Commission and the European Council of Finance Ministers. And I believe that when we are looking at the environmental debate of the future, the contribution of science, the contribution of public investment, the contribution of new market mechanisms, including tackling carbon emissions through carbon trading, that the reduced taxation that we propose will be a major incentive for people to show personal responsibility in buying products that are environmentally friendly.
The third major issue of cooperation where I believe France has already led the world, is drawing attention to what is the great humanitarian disaster that is now happening in Darfur. Two million people have been displaced. Four million people are suffering with the threat of famine and relying completely on food aid. 200,000 people have died in this war torn region where conflict has become endemic. And people will rightly ask us in the generations to come whether we were prepared to take the action that was necessary to protect human lives, to avoid continuous suffering, particularly amongst young children, and to make sure that we worked as hard as we could for a peaceful resolution of the disputes that exist in that country. I applaud the initiatives that President Sarkozy has already taken in this area. We believe that in working together, first of all we can secure a United Nations resolution that will bring an African Union and United Nations force into the area, and we hope that that resolution will pass quickly. That is why both our Foreign Ministers will go to New York to make sure that that resolution can be passed with the greatest speed and with the greatest message being sent about the importance we attach to a ceasefire. Secondly, we will work for an immediate ceasefire on the ground and a cessation to violence. We will be prepared to contribute substantial sums in economic support as soon as a ceasefire makes it possible for us to make possible economic development in that area. We will be strong in saying that unless action is taken we will be prepared to consider as individual countries a toughening up of sanctions that will put pressure on the regime to make the changes that are necessary. And as President Sarkozy has said, once the United Nations resolution is passed, we are prepared together to go to Darfur to make sure that the peace process is moving forward, to send a message that we will play our part in economic reconstruction. And of course at the same time to make sure that the government understands that the action that the world community expects us to take is being taken to protect human life and to avoid unnecessary suffering. This is one of the great humanitarian disasters of our generation, it is happening even as we speak at the moment. It is incumbent upon the whole world to act and we believe that working with other countries in the European Union, the United States of America, China, it is important that action is taken urgently.
As you can see from today’s discussions, President Sarkozy and I have a great deal in common in examining and in working together to solve some of the great challenges that face us together. We will work together for a stronger European economy, we will work together for cooperation on security against terrorism and we will work together to see if we can make a contribution to making for a safer, more peaceful and more prosperous world outside the borders of Europe, because we recognise that France and Britain have a great contribution that it is our duty to make to the rest of the world.
It is a great pleasure to be here with President Sarkozy today.
Question:
Prime Minister, you said to Chancellor Merkel that you might be prepared to envisage Britain joining the single currency. Where do you stand on that? Can you tell us more?
Prime Minister:
We have had our debates on the single currency for some time. I had to make a recommendation to the United Kingdom parliament a few years ago as to whether it was in our interests at this stage to join the European single currency. We decided it was not the right time for the British economy, given the degree of convergence that had to take place. This is obviously a matter that is kept under review. I cannot say that there are any proposals to join the euro in the near future, but what I can say is that European cooperation on matters that are economic and environmental is being strengthened by the decisions that we have made, President Sarkozy and myself, today. I think if we can show on environmental matters for example that we can strengthen cooperation to the benefit of both our economies and societies, and if we can show in the area of VAT that we can create a more flexible and economically reforming Europe, then that is to the benefit of us all. And I think now that the debate on the amending treaty is one that is going to be in the intergovernmental conference, that the debate about how Europe can be a strong economy as part of a global society is one that is going to be taken up in more detail in the months to come. So the economic reform debate, the reform of the internal market, the way we can actually bring greater prosperity through greater flexibility in the future, I think these are going to be the big issues on which we can cooperate in the next few months.
Question:
My question to Prime Minister Brown. We understand that no-one will be charged in the cash for honours inquiry. May I have your reaction to that and do you think it is time perhaps to reform the way that political parties are funded in Britain? And secondly, while you obviously admired each other as Finance Ministers we know that you don’t share the same economic vision. President Sarkozy doesn’t believe in free competition. Do you think that is going to be a sticking point in your relationship?
Prime Minister:
Well President Sarkozy came, when he was Finance Minister, to the British Confederation of British Industry to talk at their conference, to great applause, about how he saw economic reform in Europe working to the benefit of the French people and working to the benefit of the European people. And as we have talked today about greater flexibility in taxation arrangements, on VAT and on the environment and on the agenda for economic reform moving forward, we have found a great deal of common ground. Now of course there is the debate about trade moving forward. I hope that we can get a settlement in the world trade negotiations as well that will avoid any sense that protectionism is going to be important to the future of both the world economy and to any part of it. But we have a common agenda on the environment and on economic reform.
I cannot really comment on the Crown Prosecution Service or any police investigation because I have not seen any public statement that has been made yet. What I can say however is that these were very serious allegations, it is right that the police investigated these matters, and I hope that once the police make the statements and the Crown Prosecution Service makes it clear that we can bring an end to what has been months of speculation. As far as the reform of the political funding system in Britain, proposals are already on the table and we should move ahead to try and get a better system of political funding in our country.
Mr Sarkozy:
I just wanted to reassure our British friends, I have nothing against competition and we are in fact implementing reforms in France which will enable the French economy to become more efficient and more modern. But yes I have fought long and hard for competition to be a means as opposed to an end of itself. I am not challenging the positive fall-out of competition, but ultimately what we are seeking to achieve is full employment, growth, job creation, wealth creation. Competition is a means of achieving that. Likewise for trade, like Gordon Brown I believe in globalisation. I believe in free trade. But I will say very bluntly that I believe in free and fair competition. I believe in fair and free trade. Europe cannot be the only part of the world or the only region that plays according to the rules, whereas others don’t. Let me take a few examples. With Gordon we want to respect the balances that must prevail the world over, but others don’t; we want markets to be opened, but others don’t, and we want all markets to be opened. So yes to fair and free competition but it has to apply to all. I am in favour of reciprocity and I am calling for strong European discourse and language on that.
Question:
Prime Minister, President, did you discuss the issue of the aircraft carrier?
Mr Sarkozy:
Well of course we discussed the issue of defence together. We talked about it in the run up to the next Franco-British summit which will be convened in Britain. We need to work carefully, cautiously, quietly for us to come up with hard and fast results. I need to review all our defence programmes in order to take a certain number of decisions. Our determination to work with the British is absolute and the credibility of European defence rests upon proper cooperation between the UK and France. So yes we talked about it, yes we work very well together. There are prospects, we have a time frame, but for the time being I think the less we talk about it the more we will be able to progress in the weeks to come.
Prime Minister:
[Indistinct] decision about defence procurement for the French government is a matter for the French government. At whatever time and for whatever orders they make the decision, that is a matter for them. But we would welcome of course cooperation on aircraft carriers. We look forward to being able to continue our discussions on this. Both of us have major decisions to make about that procurement in the future. If we can have a common and joint project in this we would be very happy indeed.
Mr Sarkozy:
In brief, we have joint ambitions. There is even an idea on the table which is an excellent one, which is the aircraft carrier. It is just that I have to reform, together with the Ministry of Defence, I have to take a certain number of budgetary decisions and make budgetary choices. We have agreed that we could make a number of announcements possibly at the [indistinct].
Question:
I am from China, I have a question for the Prime Minister and for the President. Darfur, the environment, the economy, all these matters have some connection with China. What do you intend to do with China and how do you intend to work with China to solve these problems? And relations between France, China and Britain right now, where do they stand? That is my first question. My second question has to do with relations with Russia, could you say a few words about that.
Prime Minister:
I think you know that we had to take difficult decisions in relation to the Litvinenko case and we will not tolerate a situation where a British citizen is assassinated on British soil. Our investigating authorities identified someone who we wish to arrest for that charge and we are prevented from doing so through the inability of the Russian authorities to extradite him to Britain. And that is why we have had to take the action that we did and I think our first duty is to protect our citizens and to prevent there being lawlessness on the streets of London.
You are absolutely right about the importance of China. We have very good and friendly relationships with the Chinese government. I enjoyed speaking to the Premier only a few days ago about the common challenges we face together. And let me just say about Darfur, when there are two million people displaced, four million people who may go without food unless there is charitable aid provided for them, then we all have a duty to act. I hope that China, together with the European Union and the United States of America, will recognise in the UN Security Council resolution the urgency of acting immediately. We have come here today to discuss many issues, but when there are humanitarian disasters that we know about that are happening in front of our eyes, where we can record the numbers of people whose lives are at risk on a day to day and week to week basis, it is our duty to act. And I look forward to a Security Council resolution that has the support of China, the United States and all of course members of the Security Council. I would then look forward to all countries putting pressure on the Sudanese government to take the action that is necessary. We are prepared to make available substantial amounts of aid so that those people who have been displaced and those people who are in difficulty can have a stake in the future of the country with the investment in their wellbeing made by aid and support from our countries. But we are not prepared to stand by and allow the will of the international community to be thwarted. That is why we are prepared to take further sanctions if necessary. And I think it is a measure of the seriousness with which both of us feel this situation has got to be dealt with that Mr Kouchner, the French Foreign Minister, has already visited Darfur. Our International Development Secretary has already been there this week to look at the situation on the ground. Our Foreign Ministers will go to the United Nations to make sure that the resolution is one that will command the support of the whole international community and be implemented as quickly as possible. We as representatives of our two countries are prepared to go ourselves to Darfur to talk to the government there to make sure that on the ground lives are protected and suffering is avoided.
Mr Sarkozy:
On Russia, let me remind you how supportive France has been of our British friends. This is a matter of principle. We have shown solidarity vis a vis Britain. I believe in democracies standing shoulder to shoulder when there is this type of incident. We need to show solidarity and I have no regrets.
As to China, we need China, as Gordon rightly said. In Darfur China can play a key role in forcing peace upon the region and we want to work with the Chinese. I also think that insofar as there is going to be the Olympic Games in China so the eyes of the world will be upon China. I am sure that the Chinese will wish to organise these events in the best possible manner. Now we have two problems, the Yuan, the value of the Yuan, and this is something I really want to discuss with our Chinese friends. It is of the essence, the way in which local currency parity and values is organised and handled. Also the fact that China has to play its part in re-establishing, restoring the environmental balance of the planet. Countries like China, India, Brazil, these are huge countries, cannot simply be absent, cannot not participate in the debate on global warming because if this global warming continues these are the countries that will be in the frontline, who will suffer the most. So it is not to be France and Britain that together, alone, are going to be able to solve the issue of climate change. We need the big emerging countries as well.
Question:
May I just ask the Prime Minister if you have any reason to believe or hope that the Sudanese government will actually actively get involved in this process now and we are not just going to go into another cycle of condemnatory resolutions. You mentioned going to Sudan, a British Prime Minister went to Sudan just a few years ago and talked to the government there, thought that they had some promises from them which were then promptly ignored by the Sudanese government. Do you think it will be different this time?
Prime Minister:
Well it is a measure of the seriousness which we attach to the situation that what we are today issuing is a plan for the future. It is not simply a request to the Sudanese government or the United Nations to take action. It is saying very clearly that we need a United Nations Security Council resolution and we will work very hard through our Foreign Ministers to achieve that. It is to say also that we need on-the-ground the government prepared to cooperate in making possible a ceasefire. It means also that we are prepared to put economic aid into the country to make it possible for the citizens of the country to get some benefit as we try to restore both law and order and prosperity to that area. And it means that we are prepared to take further sanctions, if it were necessary, through the United Nations to make sure that the action that we are proposing is firmly taken by the administration.
So this is not simply a resolution and it is not simply a plea. This is a plan of action that will be backed up by our Foreign Ministers going to the United Nations and by us together. I think this is the first time that this would happen, the Prime Minister and President going to the region to talk to all people involved in this situation. And I just want to stress to you that after several years in which the loss of life has become unacceptable and in which the numbers of people displaced has risen to two million, it is urgent that we now take the action that is necessary and we cannot wait another month before the resolution is passed by the United Nations. We cannot wait more months before we see action on the ground that makes the situation better today than it has been for the last few years. So this is a plan of action that we hope will be implemented with due speed and with the determination of both our countries.
Mr Sarkozy:
It is not because it didn’t work in the past that we should simply give up. It is not because we go there that it is necessarily going to work. But explain to me how it is going to work if we don’t do anything? And secondly, those who are the protagonists in that country, in that region, are asking us to step up the pressure. I saw President Deby from Chad yesterday and he said you have got to put more pressure, bring pressure to bear not simply on the Sudanese authorities but on the rebels in the region. In any event what Gordon Brown and I think is that we can’t not do something. There are people who are dying, there is a massive humanitarian catastrophe actually happening. Of course it is complex, of course it is difficult, but if we don’t do anything what is our share of the responsibility, what is expected of us? What, simply watch horrific pictures on television and wring our hands? No, we say this is a disaster, we have to get things moving again in various manners, by helping rebuild the country, by setting up and sending in a hybrid force. And as Gordon said, if there are some people who simply don’t understand that you can’t play with human lives then we are prepared to take sanctions and implement sanctions. These are the responsibilities we are prepared to shoulder. We are not trying to run African affairs in lieu of the Africans. We could well do without issues and problems such as these, but we do need men and women of goodwill who are prepared to say enough is enough. That is what Bernard Kouchner has done, with my support, and that is what we are doing .Let us mobilise one and all, including the Chinese, in order to get things to change. We can’t guarantee that it will work but we can guarantee that Gordon and I will do everything we can to make it work.
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